18:33 London Paddington to Oxford - HST or Turbo - and alternative trains

[whole diary]

[johoare]

Doubt it - I suspect one of two things.....

1. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) really don't care as long as there are bums on seats or in mid air if standing

2. The previous and later service are less loaded and management would like people from your train to move onto the earlier or later service

I suspect number 1... As I know that the previous train  (18.18 departure) and later train (19.06) are also very full..

[johoare]

Well, I emailed FGW^▸ (First Great Western) customer services on Sunday 21st March to ask where on earth they think all the passengers from the 18.33 will go.. I got a standard acknowledgement saying they should reply within 5 working days.. But nothing since 

Theresa May, our MP^▸ (Member of Parliament), is also aware of the problems that this is undoubtedly going to cause and is talking to FGW about it  but I suspect it's too late for anything to be done about it now..

A very very large step backwards by FGW 

[willc]

But another step forward in cutting their running costs, which I'm sure is at the root of the decision, just like putting Turbos back on so many Cotswold workings over the past year. Never mind what effect it has on the poor old passenger.

[IndustryInsider]

I'm not sure the overall quota of HST^▸ (High Speed Train) departures is going down though - from the other post here:  http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=6521.0

1736 Paddington ^ Oxford service (fast to Maidenhead) will be formed as a HST instead of a 4-car Turbo.


There's also an attempt to justify the removal of the 18:33:

1833 Paddington ^ Oxford ceases to operate between Paddington and Oxford For Maidenhead, the 1833 will be effectively replaced by an accelerated and retimed 1842 Paddington ^ Bourne End service. Instead of taking 36 minutes to get to Maidenhead (which makes it a relatively unattractive service), it will depart at 1836 and get to Maidenhead in 27 minutes. As far as Maidenhead it will be formed as a 5-car service instead of a 3-car, providing an additional 186 seats on this train. (NB the 1842 presently has an average load factor of c.72% so there should, on average, also be a further 75 standard seats available for use from Paddington)

[johoare]

Brilliant.. So the many of us who use the 18.33 should feel good that the people who get the current 17.36 will get our HST^▸ (High Speed Train) whilst we're still slaving away at work?

Actually we're not bothered about an HST.. Any train at 18.33 would be good.

But.. They're taking away a train that lots and lots of people get off at Maidenhead and are replacing it with two extra turbo carriages on an existing train which will get to Maidenhead 14 minutes later than our current service..

That is no justification.. That is very bad..

[willc]

1736 Paddington ^ Oxford service (fast to Maidenhead) will be formed as a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) instead of a 4-car Turbo.

That should mean fun and games at Oxford. A terminating HST working what is a stopper beyond Reading, due in minutes ahead of XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services to Banbury and with the 18.22 to Hereford hard on their heels.

It usually takes forever for the dispatchers to check that an HST is empty at Oxford before sending it into the sidings.

This one will end in tears, or many delay minutes. You've got to wonder if either FGW or Network Rail have actually looked at what they are proposing to shove through platform 2 at Oxford between 19.05 and 19.21.

[Mookiemoo]

1736 Paddington ^ Oxford service (fast to Maidenhead) will be formed as a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) instead of a 4-car Turbo.

That should mean fun and games at Oxford. A terminating HST working what is a stopper beyond Reading, due in minutes ahead of XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services to Banbury and with the 18.22 to Hereford hard on their heels.

It usually takes forever for the dispatchers to check that an HST is empty at Oxford before sending it into the sidings.

This one will end in tears, or many delay minutes. You've got to wonder if either FGW or Network Rail have actually looked at what they are proposing to shove through platform 2 at Oxford between 19.05 and 19.21.

And the 1822 struggles enough anyway following the 1722 and the 1751

[inspector_blakey]

Deep breath...I'm probably going to make myself slightly unpopular here...

But another step forward in cutting their running costs, which I'm sure is at the root of the decision, just like putting Turbos back on so many Cotswold workings over the past year. Never mind what effect it has on the poor old passenger.

But.. They're taking away a train that lots and lots of people get off at Maidenhead and are replacing it with two extra turbo carriages on an existing train which will get to Maidenhead 14 minutes later than our current service..

That is no justification.. That is very bad..

Now, I freely admit that it's easy for me to be detached and objective here, given that I only use the Cotswold Line once in a blue moon and don't commute from Maidenhead.

However, in the grand scheme of things (or to use a phrase that gets right on my n*pple ends, "looking at the bigger picture"), this is a relatively small change. For that reason I don't think I buy the "cost saving" argument - given the overall scale of FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s operation it would be incredibly small beer.

Reading some of the posts above, you would almost form the impression that FGW's train planners have made this change or rostered Turbos on Cotswold service out of pure spite. They haven't. I know some FGW and NR^» (Network Rail - home page) staff involved in train planning and they are consummate professionals who take pride in doing a difficult job. Any change in an established timetable is going to alter someone's travel arrangements: given that it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that FGW are pursuing a vendetta against Cotswold Line users or Maidenhead commuters, I would trust that there is a good operational reason why these changes have been made, which may also benefit users elsewhere.

[willc]

Well you better had buy the cost-saving argument, because it's a hell of a lot cheaper to run a Turbo than an HST^▸ (High Speed Train). A former senior railway manager has told me recently that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are "hell bent" on cutting costs - I think he knows what he's talking about.

FGW promised the Cotswold Line inter-city quality trains throughout the day in 2004. When they were preparing to dispose of Adelantes, they acquired enough HSTs, at some expense no doubt, to do just that. Over the past 12 months, first on weekdays, now at weekends, many HST workings have disappeared. They haven't altered the timetable in this neck of the woods, just removed the trains offering inter-city quality. That is the only 'operational' change that has been made.

The sets involved haven't suddenly popped up somewhere else on FGW's network, so they aren't out there running up operating costs.

The conclusion I draw from that - as others do - is that it's about saving money, because I cannot think of any other logical explanation.

[BBM]

1736 Paddington ^ Oxford service (fast to Maidenhead) will be formed as a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) instead of a 4-car Turbo.

That should mean fun and games at Oxford. A terminating HST working what is a stopper beyond Reading, due in minutes ahead of XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services to Banbury and with the 18.22 to Hereford hard on their heels.

It would help if FGW were to fix a few out of use doors on HSTs - lately the 17:06 has been delayed at Twyford a couple of times while passengers in coaches B & C filed out of a single door. 

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

Perahps the title of this topic needs changing.

So FGW^▸ (First Great Western) says it's 5 cars as far as Maidenhead, which indicates the train splits there.  This is unfortunately another potential delay for Maidenhead passengers, as I dare say that when the 5 cars arrive at Maidenhead the doors will not be opened until the 2 sets are split.  In my past experience Maidenhead commuters are the stroppiest in the whole of the Thames Valley, so I hope they will learn to be patient when their train arrives at Maidenhead.  Hopefully there will be a driver travelling in the lead cab of the second unit to make the uncoupling as slick as possible. 

[IndustryInsider]

1736 Paddington ^ Oxford service (fast to Maidenhead) will be formed as a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) instead of a 4-car Turbo.

This one will end in tears, or many delay minutes. You've got to wonder if either FGW^▸ (First Great Western) or Network Rail have actually looked at what they are proposing to shove through platform 2 at Oxford between 19.05 and 19.21.

I agree - perhaps they'll built the new south facing bay platform in record time and plan to shove it in there... 

I wonder if these changes are as a result of trying to allow two sets to be away for refurbishment as much as anything else?

[Chris from Nailsea]

Perahps the title of this topic needs changing.

As this discussion has developed, and widened, since my original post about an apparently one-off incident back in November 2009, I'm happy to comply!  C. 

[johoare]

Well you better had buy the cost-saving argument, because it's a hell of a lot cheaper to run a Turbo than an HST^▸ (High Speed Train). A former senior railway manager has told me recently that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are "hell bent" on cutting costs - I think he knows what he's talking about.

They're not just replacing an HST with a turbo.. They're replacing an HST with the addition of two extra carriages on a turbo which already runs...so even cheaper I imagine..

Incidentally we had a nice turbo instead of our HST this evening, from platform 13 which meant a lot of hot people (from running) on a very full up train.. It was three carriages and was packed to overflowing yet all these people (and I'm sure there were more who missed the train) are expected to fit on two carriages from May.. Hhmm.. that is a scary prospect..

[Ollie]

Have FGW^▸ (First Great Western) at any point said anywhere why they are removing this service?