Rail line hit by driver shortage. (BBC News 08/11/09)

[whole diary]

[Tim]

If traincrew are contracted to work a 35 hour week excluding Sundays and dont wish to work overtime then why should they be forced to do so??

They should not be forced to work.  BUT, my point about poor management is that a sensible employer would have amended the contracts by now (either via a process of negotiation involving the unions or just for new starters or whatever) but they appear to have ignored the issue for years and now when it comes to bite them they can only really blame themselves.

[IndustryInsider]

*Rant mode on*

To give an example - I bet if there was not union involvement, all aspects of a job were subject to performance review.

The number of TM^‡(resolve)'s I see gassing in the buffet when they havent done a ticket check AT ALL since Reading is ridiculous.  Yes, there are stops, especially with SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening), where it is impossible to do anything between them - but if they can find time to sit there and gossip and not even do their paperwork, then they can do a blinking ticket check.

We know revenue is secondary to safety - but its not secondary to sitting there with your feet up. 

Now, if I were in my office with my feet up - I would expect (1) someone to shop me to my boss and (2) me to disciplined without a leg to stand on.  Suspect would not happen to a a unionized worker.

The fact is - most of the working world DO NOT have the benefit of the socialist stasi on their side, without the sick pay, pension, 35 hour week that rail workers/most ex public sector get.  Remember - its the private sector that has suffered so far in the recession - i'm lucky, I only suffer a rate loss even though my train ticket rises, I know some people - permies and contractors - who have been unemployed for 18 months. 

So it really does grate on the private sector (and yes I know officially rail is private but....) when people complain about having to work sundays when they have set a precedent by doing it (and no doubt appreciated the overtime pay!)

*Rant mode off*

You can rant as much as you like - and I take your point about TM's, but I'm still waiting for you (or anybody else) to tell me what aspects of a train drivers performance could be sensibly and fairly judged to determine their wage?

[Tim]

I'm still waiting for you (or anybody else) to tell me what aspects of a train drivers performance could be sensibly and fairly judged to determine their wage?

• attendance/days off sick
  
• willingness to be flexible and helpful with rosters etc
• low number of SPADS/TPWS^▸ (Train Protection and Warning System) activations
• commitment to personal development (ie, willingness to learn new routes etc)

not a long list I know, but driver performance can be measured to a degree and some TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) do measure it.

I've no problem with drivers T&C.  They get a good (but by no means spectacular) wage for a responsible and demanding job (driving into Paddington with a signal to observe every 30 seconds must be mentally exhausting).  Some antisocial hours but conpensated for this by low hours overall.

I don't like it when they go on strike and wish that they wouldn't because I think that they get a fairly good deal already.  The paradox of course is that without a willingness to strike they would not be on half as good a deal as they are currently.

 FA's arguement overlooks:

• The job is open to anyone.  She is able to apply for a job as a train crew should she wish to.  The fact that she doesn't suggets that despite her moans the overall deal she gets in her industry is (as she judges it) better.
  
• The points about lazy TMs^‡(resolve) etc are valid, but I think management is just as muh to blame as the staff involved.
   
  

[IndustryInsider]

I'm still waiting for you (or anybody else) to tell me what aspects of a train drivers performance could be sensibly and fairly judged to determine their wage?

• attendance/days off sick
  
• willingness to be flexible and helpful with rosters etc
• low number of SPADS/TPWS^▸ (Train Protection and Warning System) activations
• commitment to personal development (ie, willingness to learn new routes etc)

Ok, well let's take a look at those individually with some examples:

1) attendance/days off sick:

So, a driver is unlucky enough to twist his ankle getting down from a train - are you saying he should be financially punished when his pay is decided for being certified sick for two weeks whilst his ankle repairs? Also, might this not mean that an unwell driver feels compelled to report for duty even though he is suffering from the flu? Isn't it asking for trouble if you have people that are not actually fit for duty driving trains?

2) Willingness to be flexible and helpful with rosters etc.

Rostering is a complicated thing. The fact there are national and local conditions about what can and can't be done means that everyone gets the fairest deal possible. I would predict chaos if these rules were tossed aside and everyone did just as they liked with the carrot of extra pay being dangled. As it is now, drivers at some FGW^▸ (First Great Western) depots have no idea what shift they are going to be on each Saturday as they can be moved up to four hours each way of the time on their rota. There is already a financial incentive to be flexible in so much as rosters staff ask people at short notice to do overtime or move from their booked shift. Some will do that, some won't. How you would actually fairly apply that flexibility to a wage structure is beyond me.

3) Low number of SPADS/TPWS activations:

Drivers don't deliberately go out to have either of course. Many drivers will go through their whole career without having a single SPAD^▸ (Signal Passed At Danger), and TPWS activations are not exactly common - perhaps a driver will have one once every three to five years on average? Every SPAD (and the underlying causes) is different. Some (regrettably) are 100% the drivers fault, using a mobile phone for example. Some could have been prevented by the driver doing something differently, but there were significant other factors which led to it, slippery rails due to a leaky oil train in front for example. When a driver has a SPAD they are already under pressure not to have another one as they may lose their job. Again I ask how that can be sensibly and fairly applied to an annual wage determination.

4) commitment to personal development (ie, willingness to learn new routes etc)

I'm sure most drivers would be willing to learn new routes to add to the variety in the job. But, if a Paddington LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) driver who signs HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s was to volunteer to learn the route to Bristol then the depots that already sign that route would lose work as a result. Also, if too many drivers sign lots of different routes then there are all sorts of issues over retaining knowledge - for example if a driver passed out on HST's was to learn all the routes they covered then they would not be able to remember all the braking points for stations, signal meanings, linespeeds etc., and again that could lead to mistakes being made.

Also it's fair to point out that there is already financial reward for a drivers personal development in terms of becoming a Driving Instructor or a driver who is competent in assessing and passing out trainees as fit to drive. This varies from ^2-5k a year depending on the role.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks very much for that detailed analysis of the situation, IndustryInsider! 

Now, just to continue that idea: how would I, as an 'outsider' to the rail industry, go about getting a job as a train driver?

[gaf71]

Thanks very much for that detailed analysis of the situation, IndustryInsider! 

Now, just to continue that idea: how would I, as an 'outsider' to the rail industry, go about getting a job as a train driver?

All I would say is 'good luck'! I'm currently in my training period to be a driver, and in a group of 10+, only 1 has no prior railway experience.

[devon_metro]

Thanks very much for that detailed analysis of the situation, IndustryInsider! 

Now, just to continue that idea: how would I, as an 'outsider' to the rail industry, go about getting a job as a train driver?

Job centre? 

[Chris from Nailsea]

Hmm.  As gaf71 has just indicated, such jobs are generally not available, or advertised, outside the industry.  Any other suggestions, devon_metro? 

[dog box]

So you fancy a driver position Chris......best bet is to get a safety critical role on the railway, gain some experience in the industry and apply internally

[Phil]

So you fancy a driver position Chris......best bet is to get a safety critical role on the railway, gain some experience in the industry and apply internally

Some would argue that there's no job on the railway which ISN'T safety critical.

[IndustryInsider]

Hmm.  As gaf71 has just indicated, such jobs are generally not available, or advertised, outside the industry.  Any other suggestions, devon_metro? 

A friend who has recently passed out as a driver found the job advertised on the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) website at http://www.joinusonthejourney.co.uk/default.aspx This was when several dozen were being taken on throughout the network when things were very bad a couple of years ago, so they won't be advertised as often now, but when the next big recruitment comes along...

[Henry]

http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/Main.php?sEvent=HomeCommuter

 Things are not getting any better.
 According to Sky news ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) also ballotting for industrial action.

 Will FGW^▸ (First Great Western) follow suit ?

 There have been rumours of discontent speaking to platform staff - rumour has it FGW are stopping the children's activity packs to save money.
 
 How low can you get ?

[devon_metro]

Its about time the unions stopped arsing around negotiating pay deals that make little sense. Few people in other sectors will be receiving  pay rises in the coming financial year, indeed many have lost their jobs and would jump at the chance of a ^40k+ salary.

Do the unions really want to see a situation akin to NXEC^▸ (National Express East Coast), well thinking about it - they probably do and will only use it as an excuse the nationalise the railways.   

Thats my 2p.

[Tim]

Its about time the unions stopped arsing around negotiating pay deals that make little sense. Few people in other sectors will be receiving  pay rises in the coming financial year, indeed many have lost their jobs and would jump at the chance of a ^40k+ salary.

Do the unions really want to see a situation akin to NXEC^▸ (National Express East Coast), well thinking about it - they probably do and will only use it as an excuse the nationalise the railways.   

Thats my 2p.

why do the Unions want nationalisation?  Pay is much better now than it was under BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)).

[paul7575]

If the railways were nationalised again, the unions would quickly find that all the different ex TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) groupings would be on different pay scales. They'd have great fun trying to get everyone levelled up to the best pay, because you can be pretty sure no-one would take a cut.

Many existing TOCs haven't been able to achieve harmonisation of staffs following reorganisation, from what you read Northern effectively runs as two separate companies even now... 

Paul