Rail line hit by driver shortage. (BBC News 08/11/09)

[whole diary]

[devon_metro]

Its about time the unions stopped arsing around negotiating pay deals that make little sense. Few people in other sectors will be receiving  pay rises in the coming financial year, indeed many have lost their jobs and would jump at the chance of a ^40k+ salary.

Do the unions really want to see a situation akin to NXEC^▸ (National Express East Coast), well thinking about it - they probably do and will only use it as an excuse the nationalise the railways.   

Thats my 2p.

why do the Unions want nationalisation?  Pay is much better now than it was under BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)).

RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) are always banging on about it!

[super tm]

http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/Main.php?sEvent=HomeCommuter
- rumour has it FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are stopping the children's activity packs to save money.
 
 

not rumour fact

[Mookiemoo]

http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/Main.php?sEvent=HomeCommuter
- rumour has it FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are stopping the children's activity packs to save money.
 
 

not rumour fact

I'd rather they stopped these than first class perks.  Lets see - children under five travel free, they travel half price under 16 - so they pay LESS than your average punter. But they get an activity pack free of charge.

First class pay MORE than the average punter and a heck of a lot more than kids - yet they stopped the fizzy pop.  I would just maybe accept the stopping of the friday wine if they'd been honest and said it was to save money but NOT on grounds of "healthy lifestyle" when they increased the range of sellable alcohols at the same time.

[matt473]

I'd rather they stopped these than first class perks.  Lets see - children under five travel free, they travel half price under 16 - so they pay LESS than your average punter. But they get an activity pack free of charge.

First class pay MORE than the average punter and a heck of a lot more than kids - yet they stopped the fizzy pop.  I would just maybe accept the stopping of the friday wine if they'd been honest and said it was to save money but NOT on grounds of "healthy lifestyle" when they increased the range of sellable alcohols at the same time.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but can I ask why you feel that the service offered by FGW^▸ (First Great Western) suits your needs as a matter of importance over others? This is the impression I get from some of your posts. Yes First class passenger pay more so should get perks, but why should every other passenger be exempt from some kind of perk. These activity packs keep children quiet who would otherwise possibly become restless and noisy which would annoy people for the sake of saving a few quid on making the packs. There are more people that travel than just you and those in first class and it is impossible to cater for everyones specific needs so a compromise has to be made whther we like the compromise or not.

This is not a personal dig at you so please don't take it this way, but you are vocal about what you want from the railway and there are many others that want the railway to run ot their needs as well which is entirely understandable. Only difference is you are open about what you want which I admire for being open about but do not agree with in many circumstances. The post is aimed at anyone who seem to expect the railways to only cater for their individual needs forgetting that people in standard class or in other areas also exist.

[Mookiemoo]

Ok - this may turn into war and peace but I'd like to take this opening to say where I come from in terms of opinions etc and also point out a lot of what I say is tongue in cheek at times (e.g. the food free carriage - I KNOW it would never happen although I have heard they are going to make the herefords trav chef in F only but that may be hearsay).

I was brought up with "you dont get owt for nowt" - ok I'm a scouser and that the wrong side of the pennies but the sentiment is the same.  I also do not like children - I run a business - I do a lot of work myself but I do have subcontractors at other sites - I would NEVER take on a woman of child bearing age as an employee - if I had to take an employee, I would find some reason to get the guy - as a single person who does not particularly like children and who has worked her way up from the crappiest of starts here is where I come from....

1. You get what you pay for - in standard that is a ticket for travel.  I dont even think children on half tickets should be allowed to sit if adults are standing.  I'm 33 - that is how I was brought up - if I was sitting and an adult was standing, my mother would have clipped me around the ear hole if I had not have stood up. Try to enforce that today.  But these kids are not paying a full fare.  They pay half fare in first - I would mightily annoyed - and yes it happened once - when the only seat available was sharing a table with two rugrats and their toys took precedence over my laptop when I was paying more.

2. Children in quiet carriages - I have an colleague who boasts about taking his baby and toddler in a quiet carriage - after all they are not electronic gadgets and there is nothing they can do but at least THEY cannot be woken if sleeping by loud noise - but if they wake and create the noise, that is ok.  I have also witnessed this in G in first - numerous times. 

3. I would hazard a guess that people paying for peak anytime tickets and first long distance seasons - my season to reading alone is 750+ish (I do not know the exact figure cos the ticket is in my bag ready for tomorrow but I know that it is more than I paid in 2004 for WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains) to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) which was 736 I believe) - do EXPECT to have a premium service and that is NOT just a bigger seat!

I do not think for a long distance passenger the first service is value for money HOWEVER I pay it because the only way I can spend 4 hours a day on a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) is to have space to sleep and/or work with a full table. Now, with the advent of 2+7 like todays 1751, the carriages are full in first terms - oh and there was no trolley until oxford..........but you do not get a discount for that because it is, s I've been told, complimentary ............before the refits if I could have guaranteed a HST I would have travelled standard - more tables

I'll tell you how I became a regular first passenger.............I got fired from my permie job for slagging off my boss on an internet forum - did not know she was also a member of the same forum under a completely anonymous user name.  I did not name names, name the company but just was generic - she recognised it and since we hated each other anyway she went after me for gross misconduct.  I resigned, she refused a reference - I set up my own company - never looked back.

I got a standard season to Paddington - was working at tottenham court road. My first week was my birthday week and a bomb scare at paddington - March 2004. Weekly.  Journey down ok - was HST.  journey home - 165 - standard - was refused upgrade.  Walked into ticket office at |WOS asked he price of a first - realised that AFTER TAX AND EXPENSES (luxury of running own company) it was not that much more....bought it even though I still had a week on the standard - never looked back.  And that is why I LOATHE turbos so much. 

So - I cant explain it - I just think you should not get stuff unless you pay or sacrifice for it.  You choose to have kids - your choice.  Mothers have maternity leave for the birth and the recuperation - after that it is a life style choice to have kids.  You want to take a kid on the train, pay for the kiddie pack or entertain them yourself - and if they are antisocial, your responsibility even if it means you are detrained (not that that would happen).  Now - if you had a kid and paid half a first far on the grounds that if a full fare wanted the seat or needed the table space, the kid pack should be included in the price.  just like diet coke/orangina etc was included - and here is why I have a gripe.  The reason they removed it was because some people were taking many multiple cans away with them.  They did not need to remove the free 1 can for a shorter passenger or 2 cans for the WOS/HFD^» (Hereford - next trains) passenger - what they needed was a policy that the trolley popped the top before handing over to the customer thereby preventing removal of multiple cans.. The removal of the wine club I could maybe accept except here are some facts....

If I were working in London I can get a london midland plus virgin first class season per month for about the same as an FGW^▸ (First Great Western) cotswolds season.  the journey time is quicker, more reliable and I get fed in each direction along with soft drinks, juices and free alcohol.  It is ONLY because I am routing from REading I use first anymore and about a year ago I would have been loyal to FGW because in general I like the staff.

 A lot of what I gripe about is that being a DINKY I get nothing for everything I do - I have no kids so no kiddie related benefits, I pay higher tax so are generally subsidising those kids, I have to accept in the 21st century kids are ferile and not seen and not heard, I have to live with my generation being increasingly obnoxious.

I'd like to think that even though I pay for first I am not an obnoxious passenger - if anyone on here knows me - I get on with what I do, I chat to the staff where it occurs, I dont complain since its not their fault in geneeral - ut I do object to the increasing view that it is somehow morally corrupt to get more/better service just because you can afford to pay for it.

I came from a sink estate in L8 (remember toxteth riots) - we moved to bootle (remember Jamie Bulger - that was my high school) - I made myself an outcast because I wanted to do better than the prison or benefits and now I find..........which is often expressed on here .....because I can afford to pay for better I should not get it because someone else may not be able to get a seat or a kiddie pack.

If they want it - get off their ass and work for it like I did.

And this only comes from the last 2-3 years of getting the impression that if FGW could they would do away with first.  Fine - just give me a godamn table to work on!

[JayMac]

Wow. Quite some post, Angel!!

Ever considered getting on a soap-box at Hyde Park Corner? 

I'll have to disagree with 'children being a lifestyle choice' though. Darwin would have something to say about that.....and to paraphrase Whitney Houston "The children are our future". 

[Mookiemoo]

Wow. Quite some post, Angel!!

Ever considered getting on a soap-box at Hyde Park Corner? 

I did say at the outset it could be war and peace.............

[IndustryInsider]

I did say at the outset it could be war and peace.............

1300 words and still no attempt to answer my question to you at the top of page three in this thread. 

[Timmer]

News on a second day of action affecting FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect) Thameslink services:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8356112.stm

Thousands of rail commuters in south-east England are facing a second day of disruption because of a row over pay.

Nearly half of First Capital Connect's 400 Thameslink services on its Brighton to Bedford route will be cancelled as many drivers refuse to work overtime.

They are angered by the company's plan to freeze pay this year and offer a minimum 3% rise next year.

Their action is unofficial, although unions are to ballot for strike action which could affect Christmas travel.

[Tim]

Angel,

Thanks for the long explanation.  perhaps we understand eaxch other a little better. 

If I just restrict my comments to the matter of First class and Children:

I actually think that a weekly first class season Worcester to Reading at ^750 whilst by no means cheap is not actually expensive when you compare it to some other fares (ie Cardiff to London peak time return is almost ^200 for one day only in STANDARD class).  Most UK^▸ (United Kingdom) fares are expensive and I don't want you to think that I am defending them - I think that our fare system stinks - but please don't think that you are personally being disadvantaged.  I do not think that you are any more hard done by with the fare you pay than many other people.  Your enemy is the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)/governemnt/frachise system not your fellow customers.

Three thing that get forgotten in discussions of "why should children/students/groups/old folk/locals etc get preferential fares", are 1) that noone stays in their own fare category for ever.  I am now paying full price for my tickets, but I have previously benefited from low price children's fares and my student railcard and one day my children will get cheap fares and when I get old, I might be in line for some kind of discount too.  You only really have a right to moan about paying full price now if you didn't take advantage of cheap tickets when you were younger and you promise to never use discounted fares when you get older, otherwise there is a wiff of hypocracy.
2) different groups tend to travel at different times of the day.  I know that this is a generalisation, but children are most likely to travel on trains in the middle of the day when commuters are sat in their offices. Discounts for groups like the old and young have the general effect of smoothing demand, by encouraging people onto the trains when there is spare capacity.   Someone paying half price or even an under 5 sitting for free next to a fare paying parent who wouldn't otherwise be travelling brings in more money for the TOC than an empty seat.  Discounts for young people can also be seen as a marketing expense - get them used to useing the trains when they are young and treat them well and you might have a good custoemr for life 3) children often travel as part of a family group.  for groups of 3 or 4 people the railway is up against the car as a key competitor.  Unless some mechanism is used to discount fares (be that Children's fares or things like group-save) the railway will loose out to the car because the car will always be cheaper than 4 full price fares.  You complain that under-5 travel for free on trains but you must remember that they also travel free when they are sat in the back of their parent's car in an otherwise empty seat.  I know that things like railcards and child fares are speciifced by the government, but even in unregulated industries children often get discounts (ie at the cinema), there must be a commercial advantage in the company doing this and TOCs must benefit from doing it on the railway in a similar fashion.

[devon_metro]

Worth remembering of course that many under 15s do not have employment and as such being asked to pay full whack on the day for the train would be silly.

Mum's taxi  is of course the next port of call...

[Tim]

Worth remembering of course that many under 15s do not have employment and as such being asked to pay full whack on the day for the train would be silly.

Mum's taxi  is of course the next port of call...

Different prices for different people is product differentiation.  If you can make ^10 out of someone with little money, ^30 out of someone with more money and ^60 out of someone on expenses for the same journey you have higher total revenue than charging everyone the same price because you encourage more people to travel overall.   

[Ollie]

Thanks very much for that detailed analysis of the situation, IndustryInsider! 

Now, just to continue that idea: how would I, as an 'outsider' to the rail industry, go about getting a job as a train driver?

https://www.southern.candidata.co.uk/view.aspx?JobID=1349

Here you go Chris - Closes today though.
Trainee Driver based at Horsham

[JayMac]

Thanks very much for that detailed analysis of the situation, IndustryInsider! 

Now, just to continue that idea: how would I, as an 'outsider' to the rail industry, go about getting a job as a train driver?

https://www.southern.candidata.co.uk/view.aspx?JobID=1349

Here you go Chris - Closes today though.
Trainee Driver based at Horsham

Go for it, Chris. I trust your Quality Orientation and Interpersonal Sensistivity are up to scratch. WTF? 

[Tim]

According to Railway Eye, because FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect) is under "cap and collar", 80% of any losses caused by industrial action will be met by the Government.  And because not running trains is cheaper than runninng trains, on the RMt's "days of action" FCC makes a net revenue gain.  This is hardly a case of the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) incentivising good industrial relations and why should I as a tax payer be subsidising strikes?