Glasgow 'axed' from train route, in proposed 2010 timetable

[whole diary]

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Train services on the East Coast Main Line would no longer go to Glasgow and instead terminate at Edinburgh, under new plans which have emerged.

At present, the service leaves Kings Cross and travels up the east coast of England before carrying on to Edinburgh, then Glasgow.

The new December 2010 timetable is currently under discussion.

The Department of Transport said it would have to go to public consultation for the changes to take place.

Rail watchdog Passenger Focus said the group was seeking reassurances about the line's future.

Scottish director James King told BBC Scotland: "At the present time the Department for Transport is consulting on a new timetable for the East Coast route, which will generate more train paths and faster, more consistent journey times between Edinburgh and London. As a consequence of that, it is proposed in the timetable that the services that are presently provided between Yorkshire and Glasgow by the East Coast operator are moved to another operator. We're looking for reassurance that another operator will be found. They're certainly shown on the timetable as not being operated by the East Coast operator.

"Clearly, there are other operators out there who could pick up the services - potentially TransPennine or Arriva Cross Country. But a deal would have to be done with those operators because it would be a variation of their franchise."

Direct services from Glasgow to London Euston will continue.

However, Mr King said a "significant" number of passengers travelling from the north east of England to Glasgow through Edinburgh would be affected, particularly in the mornings going north and evenings going south. He said there would be a particular impact on key routes to destinations such as Newcastle, York and Doncaster.

"There is a significant flow from the north east of England through to Edinburgh and Glasgow, which would have to be provided by another operator," he said.

He added: "I'm sure negotiations are actively taking place but we are looking for reassurance that this is taking place."

A spokeswoman for the Department of Transport said: "Any changes to train services are a matter for the train operating company. Any such changes could only be implemented after public consultation and approval from the department."

The East Coast Main Line is due to transfer to a government-controlled company, East Coast, at one minute before midnight on 13 November.

However, the new timetable changes are not directly linked to the temporary nationalisation.

[brompton rail]

Potential operators to take up East Coast Services beyond Edinburgh to Glasgow include TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) and XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)).  I can't see that either is in a position to do that.

For TPE to run Newcastle - Edinburgh - Glasgow  is a 6 hour round trip. A 2 hourly service would require 3 additional units (I think my maths are correct!).  For Xc to extend Edinburgh services to Glasgow would involve about a 3 hour round trip.  Where would the trains come from, I wonder.  It is true that a TPE Class 185 or a XC Class 220 would be adequate for the business.

If you want to look at the Dec 2010 timetable proposals, so far from the West .. this is the link

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/ecml-nr-scl2-timetable-161009.pdf

[Tim]

with planned improved Edinburgh - Glasgow Queen Street electrification bringing 37 minute journey times and 15 minute frequencies and Virgin now offering faster Glasgow-London journeys via the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line), you could argue that there is now less of a need for the KX trains to run to Glasgow Central (via a route that takes almost an hour IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly)).

If the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) trains are mostly empty between Edinburgh and Glasgow then I say cutthem short and use the money and stock elsewhere (ie in England where we are relatively short of both compared to Scotland).

[paul7575]

Potential operators to take up East Coast Services beyond Edinburgh to Glasgow include TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) and XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)). 

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/ecml-nr-scl2-timetable-161009.pdf

The report you've quoted only mentions the possibility of the Glasgow services being transferred to XC. TPE aren't mentioned in that context at all.

My own theory is that the whole issue is cockup rather than conspiracy, as the timetable is declared by ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) to be a work in progress. After all it is just as likely that they've accidentally left off the Glasgows, or the KX to Edinburgh legs have changed and they haven't decided which services to extend. 

In any case, Adonis came out with very quick denial...

Paul

[brompton rail]

I agree Paul ... cock up rather than conspiracy.

[IndustryInsider]

It might make sense to extend, say, every other of the hourly Edinburgh to South-West services back at Glasgow. And whilst they're at it extend a couple of the Reading to Newcastle's to/from Edinburgh so that the Thames Valley has more than one though train a day to Scotland (which is at an awkward time anyway). Still, the old problem of suitable amounts of rolling stock will rear it's ugly head.

[devon_metro]

It might make sense to extend, say, every other of the hourly Edinburgh to South-West services back at Glasgow. And whilst they're at it extend a couple of the Reading to Newcastle's to/from Edinburgh so that the Thames Valley has more than one though train a day to Scotland (which is at an awkward time anyway). Still, the old problem of suitable amounts of rolling stock will rear it's ugly head.

I believe extending Voyagers so that there is a service to Glasgow every two hours requires one extra voyager unit which isn't a problem.

[eightf48544]

with planned improved Edinburgh - Glasgow Queen Street electrification bringing 37 minute journey times and 15 minute frequencies and Virgin now offering faster Glasgow-London journeys via the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line), you could argue that there is now less of a need for the KX trains to run to Glasgow Central (via a route that takes almost an hour IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly)).

If the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) trains are mostly empty between Edinburgh and Glasgow then I say cutthem short and use the money and stock elsewhere (ie in England where we are relatively short of both compared to Scotland).

I think Tim has hit the nail on the head. Once the Falkirk route is electrified then there is no need for this service. Not running it releases Mark 4 sets which could be used for the Leeds and Newcastle Services which curently use HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) all the way under the wires.