No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York?

[whole diary]

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Appeal bid over station barriers

A rail company is appealing against a decision not to allow ticket barriers at York railway station.

In July, councillors rejected plans by National Express East Coast to install 17 automatic tickets gates and barriers within the Grade II listed station. The company said the scheme would cut fare dodging but objectors have said they were unsightly and unnecessary. The controversial plans were thrown out over concerns the barriers would detract from the station's character.

Neal Smith, from National Express East Coast, said the company believed the council's decision was wrong. He said they were expected to deliver the scheme as part of a franchise agreement with the Department of Transport. "We have listened to the objectors and we have modified the scheme, for example we've reduced the height of the gates that are proposed from 1.8m to 1.1m and we've looked at a new access to the short stay car park."

Mr Smith added: "We do think it is the right decision and as I've said it is a commitment that the government expects us to deliver."

Objectors have argued the gates would be out of keeping with the building's historic feel.

Jonathan Tyler, chairman of the York Environment Forum, which campaigns for a sustainable way of life in the city, said the barriers would act as a "physical impediment". He said: "There is a small limited problem of ticket fraud and evasion but there are better ways of tackling that by dealing with it on trains where it can be part of the customer service. If you install barriers at stations you introduce a physical impediment. You stop people going to meet their friends and their relatives, which is part of the travel experience and above all you take it out of the public realm."

The appeal is expected to be heard in the new year.

[Phil]

Objectors have argued the gates would be out of keeping with the building's historic feel.

I can only assume objectors who are fans of squared-off, bland '80s brick architecture won their argument against the installation of barriers at Didcot Parkway then, as it puzzles me why they don't have any barriers (or ticket checks) there.

[inspector_blakey]

There are (or at least used to be) regular staffed ticket checks at the entrance to the subway in the mornings. I assume the entrance from the Foxhall car park is either closed or staffed at those times as well.

I remember a staff member posting on here some time ago that Didcot was slated to be next in line for barriers but never heard any more about it.

[caliwag]

A snapshot of reasoned arguements from locals, who you can be pretty sure are railway people

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/4708678.National_Express_East_Coast_launches_bid_to_overturn_York_Station_barrier_decision/?ref=eb

[JayMac]

I like the arguement that barriers will detract from the stations character! Did the City Council oppose the Burger King in the ticket hall? Or the other retail outlets with their garish signage. Surely OHLE detracts from the character......

I hope NXEC^▸ (National Express East Coast) (or the successor) win their appeal; and they should have a bit of government weight behind them - barrier installation is a franchise commitment after all. Having said that I am tired of TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) using the 'security' argument for barrier installation. Tell it like it is; revenue protection. Nothing more, nothing less.

One aspect of this does confuse me though. NXEC are merely the tenant of York Station. Surely Network Rail could grant themselves planning permission....they have that power.

[inspector_blakey]

Got to love the "comments" section of the local news websites. Still, at least this one makes a change from the right-wing bile that used to be the stock in trade of many folks posting on the comments section of the local paper's website when I lived in Oxford (I suspect it's probably the same pretty much everywhere else too)!

[caliwag]

Quite...I do tend to agree about the Character-changing arguement...entire Nimbyism...and York used to have TC^‡(resolve) boxes. In reality people of York like their station (many have of course worked for the railway, the works etc, and now the museum), but I think the objection is more about the fact that there are many entrances/exits that people have grown used to using...side gate from the cycle area, and the relatively new museum side one...useful for commuters.

I would think it's the fact that the station is listed that NR^» (Network Rail - home page) can't just used permitted development...BTW^▸ (by the way) I do agree Burger King etc is poor. And Coopers bar is overpriced and never has decent ale on...bah

[devon_metro]

Barriers are only useful when used properly.

On Tuesday I exited/entered paddington at 0545 plat 1, 1035 plat 14, 2020 plat 4 and did not use my ticket once. Using the bridge is an obvious trick, however I was suprised to see the suburban barriers wide open at half 10.

[Ollie]

Barriers are only useful when used properly.

On Tuesday I exited/entered paddington at 0545 plat 1, 1035 plat 14, 2020 plat 4 and did not use my ticket once. Using the bridge is an obvious trick, however I was suprised to see the suburban barriers wide open at half 10.

Quite a normal situation lately, should change once the new staff taken on.

[JayMac]

And Coopers bar is overpriced and never has decent ale on...bah

Grab yourself a Bite Card and get yourself 20% off in Coopers.

Oh, and last time I was there my pint of Tetleys was most agreeable.

[Mookiemoo]

l. Having said that I am tired of TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) using the 'security' argument for barrier installation. Tell it like it is; revenue protection. Nothing more, nothing less.

Its not even that without robust on train checks

I've said before and I say again...........I could get a charlbury to Reading single and a Reading to Reading west single and I doubt anyone would know the wiser.  Up of a morning I get on, the ATI gets on at charlbury.  I have YET to get a ticket check from Reading to Worcester before today - of course I have a number of still valid return portions I could whip out in the event I was trying it on - and even then he looked at the return valid until 28 Nov  and wandered past............ opportunity to re-use with a reading west ticket?

[willc]

Re Didcot, the big fly in the ointment there is access to the Railway Centre, which is through the station subway - the only other way in is on a train. No-one seems to have come up with a way round this problem yet.

There's a similar kind of thing at York because people have got used to going through the station as a handy way to get from the National Railway Museum and the Leeman Road area to the city centre in the past few years since the western access bridge to the station opened, rather than going round through the not very pedestrian-friendly bridge under the tracks and past the hotel.

However, inconveniencing pedestrians is not really the kind of thing planning committees are allowed to cite when making decisions, hence the convoluted stuff about character. I have a sneaking suspicion that if that western extension of the footbridge had never been opened, no-one would have batted an eyelid about the barriers going in.

[inspector_blakey]

The only solution that readily springs to mind would be for the Railway Centre's ticket office to relocate to the front of the station, although I have little idea of (a) who would pay for this, (b) where it would go and (c) what the economics of leasing a part of the station long term would be.

[Btline]

The more barriers the better. A major station like York should have them. They should be in operation and staffed from the first until the last train of the day.

But of course, I doubt anyone would pay for that!

[paul7575]

Why not rebuild the barriers the station originally came with? That would turn it into a nice dark and dingy place, like Newcastle Central used to be when I were a lad.    The idea that York has always been fully open is probably far from correct.

They seem to think they are somehow a special case in York - too well behaved to need barriers, and beside they aren't a commuter type station. Well that argument could be used at many barriered stations in the south, and unfortunately it is Government (ie DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)) policy - I reckon the city is flogging a dead horse myself.

One issue though, having watched some of the recent SWT^▸ (South West Trains) installations take place, is that the barrier line itself can just stand on the ground. So if it is effectively portable, why not just make the whole setup 'portable' including having free-standing panels between barrier sections? Surely that wouldn't then be a planning issue?

Paul