DMU cascades - latest news

[whole diary]

[Btline]

To say they are in a good condition, from a passenger's point of view, is just wrong!

[inspector_blakey]

A unit could be a right bag of spanners mechanically but nicely maintained in the passenger saloon. Alternatively, it could be an absolute dump "upstairs" but mechanically completely sound...

[willc]

Well folks, shock horror, btline and I are in agreement on this one. The LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) 150s are some of the sorriest DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) out there at the moment. FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s Turbos may be tired internally, but they don't try to shake themselves to bits accelerating away from a stop, which the LM sets I seem to encounter whenever I travel between Stratford and Birmingham do.

And most of the 150s coming FGW's way will still be coming from LM - there are only six sets left in London since FGW acquired two of the eight Silverlink used to operate. The LO sets are a small fleet looked after by the same people on the same depot every night - rather like Exeter's efforts with 142s and 143s. The LM sets don't get the same degree of tlc, just enough work to keep them running until the 172s turn up - and it shows.

[Sprog]

Sprog - I've been away, so sorry if this info has already been posted, but can you tell me how many 2-car 150/1s you are expecting?

Have been told 30 vehicles, equating to 15 units.

To say they are in a good condition, from a passenger's point of view, is just wrong!

They will receve an internal re-fresh when or shortly after they transfer to FGW^▸ (First Great Western).

A unit could be a right bag of spanners mechanically but nicely maintained in the passenger saloon. Alternatively, it could be an absolute dump "upstairs" but mechanically completely sound...

Indeed. Nail + Head.

Well folks, shock horror, btline and I are in agreement on this one. The LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) 150s are some of the sorriest DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) out there at the moment. FGW's Turbos may be tired internally, but they don't try to shake themselves to bits accelerating away from a stop, which the LM sets I seem to encounter whenever I travel between Stratford and Birmingham do.

And most of the 150s coming FGW's way will still be coming from LM - there are only six sets left in London since FGW acquired two of the eight Silverlink used to operate. The LO sets are a small fleet looked after by the same people on the same depot every night - rather like Exeter's efforts with 142s and 143s. The LM sets don't get the same degree of tlc, just enough work to keep them running until the 172s turn up - and it shows.

The LM DMUs, whilst looking shabby & dated internally, are in pretty good conditon in terms of overall mechanical conditon (including reliabilty Modifications/Upgrades they have recieved), remaining Component life (eg.Bogies/Wheelsets, Engines, Transmissions etc.) and the standard of maintenance the vehicles have recieved over time. Unless im being strung a pack of lies of course!!

The LOROL^▸ (London Overground Railway Operations Ltd) sets are also tired interanlly, but less advanced in terms of Mods etc., but as pointed out by Will, they have had the advantage of being part of a small fleet that is maintained by a sole depot, formerly Bletchley & now Willesden.

[Btline]

But as I've been said before, they struggle to get up gradients. They are already banned from the Licky (whatever the spelling) Incline.

Some can go no faster than 50 mph. The driver said, "she'll only go as fast as she'll go"!

If that equates to "good mechanical condition", what is bad condition?

[Lee]

Thanks for that info, Sprog 

[Sprog]

But as I've been said before, they struggle to get up gradients. They are already banned from the Licky (whatever the spelling) Incline.

Some can go no faster than 50 mph. The driver said, "she'll only go as fast as she'll go"!

If that equates to "good mechanical condition", what is bad condition?

  The 150s are hardly the most powerful units.

Seriously though, the Lickey is a very notorious & challanging incline even for most of the rolling stock that uses it. Voyagers arnt officially allowed to attempt it if they have more than 1 engine out and they are kicking out 750HP per car.

I'm not going to be drawn into an argument with you about the maintenance standards of units!

There are always going to be good'uns and bad'uns in any fleet and it is on a very individual basis. You appear to be looking at things on a very 2D basis.

In the bigger picture, the vehicles major components like Engines, Transmissions, Bogies, Wheelsets etc. the LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) 150s are well maintained with good remaining component lifes on alot of the fleet. This is the sort of thing that is looked at when assessing a fleet of trains, not if the seat covers are stained/lighting is dingy etc. The fleet has also recieved numerous reliabilty Mods to systems and components that ensure the fleet is up to current standards with DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)/group standards etc.

If you want an example of Bad condition, take a look at some of Northern's DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) fleet or think back a few years to when FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (and SPM^▸ (St Philip's Marsh (Bristol depot))!) first took on the ex-Wessex DMUs from the clutches of Arriva Cardiff Canton.

My last post on the subject

[vacman]

I believe all the LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) units are maintained at the same depot aren't they? Tyseley? Lets not forget the thrashing that the LM 150's have been subjected to over the years, ALL 150's are banned from Lickey, not just LM ones!

[JayMac]

Well folks, shock horror, btline and I are in agreement on this one.....

And without recourse to the UN. I'm impressed

[inspector_blakey]

It might not have gone to the UN but I'm guessing there was some midnight oil burnt at ACAS 

[Mookiemoo]

I point blank refuse to use them.

To get to Brum i have the option of a 30 minute drive and then 40-50 minutes on one of those things

Or a five minute drive and then 30 minutes to shrewsbury following by 40 minutes to brum.

Arriva get my business hands down.

[devon_metro]

Arriva get my business hands down.

London Midland units must be awful then 

[Mookiemoo]

Arriva get my business hands down.

London Midland units must be awful then 

The 150s are!

When I was going via Newport I dreaded when an arriva 150 showed up ludlow to newport.......was actually a whole heck of a lot better than the LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) ones

[Btline]

I believe all the LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) units are maintained at the same depot aren't they? Tyseley? Lets not forget the thrashing that the LM 150's have been subjected to over the years, ALL 150's are banned from Lickey, not just LM ones!

Very true, as when Anglia 150s were brought to CT (swapped for CT 158s), they weren't allowed on the Licky incline either. The ban was around 2003/4. So it just goes to show that they as a class are clapped out. Combine that with the woeful maintenance from both CT and LM, then I can't see them lasting, unless they are given some serious TLC^▸ (three letter code ).

Although I am no fan of them, I don't avoid them like FA - I consider that too far. The only time they are unbearable, is when it is hot, and they are packed. That's why I feel sorry for commuters to B'ham in the summer. The line from Kidderminster is Birmingham's MOST OVERCROWDED commuter line, and yet it has not been electrified, and the 172s will reduce seats by 10 in each coach (with 1 fewer vehicles as well). Not fair! Although they are well overdue, and they'll be more comfortable.*

*EDIT: Looking at the stats, LM 172s will have, on average, fewer seats per coach than CH 168s! So FA, you'll have plenty of tables!

[smithy]

i will have my 2 pennies worth now!

agreed the lm 150's are tired inside but why would a toc do anything to upgrade them when a new fleet is on its way?
the maintenance they get from tyseley is to a better standard than spm or any other dmu depot for that matter and despite the fact they have a new fleet on the way the existing stuff still needs maintaining to the same group standards.

sprog
i agree the ex wessex 150 fleet was tired internally when they arrived from canton but reliability wise they were better then as exeter did all the exam work.now they are fine inside but reliability has suffered since maintenance was transferred to spm.
maybe you could shed some light on to why this is the case,time constraints when doing exams over night for example?

as for the lm fleet only doing 50mph that is a load of rubbish,maybe it could happen on the odd occasion but the set would soon be pulled from service and repaired as the fines for delays would cripple them.
i would hazard a guess and say if you looked at the 150 fleet performance across all tocs then lm's fleet would fair quite well as they have had a lot of reliability/improvement mods over the years