DMU cascades - latest news

[whole diary]

[northwesterntrains]

Are FGW^▸ (First Great Western) still going to get new DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) as wasn't the decision of who gets the LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) 150s partly dependant on who gets brand new DMUs?  But then the electrification stratergy has come in since and postponed any new DMU order.

You have pretty much answered your own question there. Sadly no new trains for Cardiff-Portsmouth because of electrification but that is still quite sometime away so we could see overcrowding occuring more frequently on this route than is already seen despite strengthening trains to three vehicles.

I mean the number of 150s both FGW and Northern were due to get was dependant on how many 172s were built and where they went, not just the fact that FGW were getting some would mean no new 172 for them.  But then the electrification plan and future 319s to both FGW and Northern seems to mean less, if any, 172s will be built.

[smithy]

I'm sure I've seen one of the 3-car 150s with a cab-less centre vehicle. Don't see it often, I think its a one-off. I guess that one would have to stay as a 3-car.

Quite possible. The two prototypes, 150001 and 150002 were built as 3 car units, and they are still to be found trundling around on the London Midland network.

Wasn't another 3 car one formed after an accident?

they did have some more 150's that were 3 cars and numbered as 003,006 etc,these were formed as 2 x 150/1 and 1x 150/2 same as the rest but were just assigned 150/0 numbers

[Wolvercote Wanderer]

Wasn't another 3 car one formed after an accident?

Yep - not long after they were delivered, both 150209 and 150212 both had their DMSL^▸ (Driving Motor Standard Lavatory ) vehicles written off.  So, in the current London Midland fleet, there are two vehicles without matching pairs should the decision be made to return all units to two-car sets - 57209 (currently formed in 150017) and 57212 (currently in 150016).

The latter's cab is operational as it was recently used as a driving vehicle when the set was reduced to two carriages for a short period.

Not sure if they can be paired together (technically) but if they can be, they'd need to be restricted to short journey diagrams as neither vehicle has a toilet.

[Cruithne3753]

All 150s... ho hum. I'd like to see a bit more variety.  Back in September I visited Kidderminster, I was hoping for a 158 up to Worcester, and maybe a 170 on the Midland portion.  Nope, it was 150s all the way there and all the way back.

[Btline]

All 150s... ho hum. I'd like to see a bit more variety.  Back in September I visited Kidderminster, I was hoping for a 158 up to Worcester, and maybe a 170 on the Midland portion.  Nope, it was 150s all the way there and all the way back.

158s and 170s haven't been used on the Snow Hill lines since the 150s were banned from the Lickely Incline. When this happened, all 158s and 170s were transferred to Lickely services, with the remaining 150s coming to the Snow Hill lines. Many Central Trains 158s were then swapped for Anglia 150s (which make up most of the 2 car LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) 150s).

[JayMac]

All 150s... ho hum. I'd like to see a bit more variety.  Back in September I visited Kidderminster, I was hoping for a 158 up to Worcester, and maybe a 170 on the Midland portion.  Nope, it was 150s all the way there and all the way back.

158s and 170s haven't been used on the Snow Hill lines since the 150s were banned from the Lickely Incline. When this happened, all 158s and 170s were transferred to Lickely services, with the remaining 150s coming to the Snow Hill lines. Many Central Trains 158s were then swapped for Anglia 150s (which make up most of the 2 car LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) 150s).

Umm....Lickey Incline

[caliwag]

We do not want 142s in North yorkshire...a complete insult to the carriage building community. I suppose they'll dump on the Harrogate line again, just to encourage them to vote for a tram line...though where that will land in York is anyone's guess...bah

[inspector_blakey]

I'm sure you'd find plenty of people in FGW^▸ (First Great Western) land who would be more than happy to keep them, especially after the sterling job Exeter depot has done fixing them up.

[grahame]

We do not want 142s in North yorkshire...

Is that a unanimous view from up there? As Inspector_blakey has pointed out, the Exeter folks are doing an excellent job of looking after the units, and if you don't want one of them, we'll keep it down here to run as follows:

Exeter - Yeovil Junction - Yeovil Pen Mill  - Westbury - Swindon (to arrive at 08:53)
Swindon (09:02) - Salisbury (10:17)
Salisbury (10:31) - Swindon (11:50)
Swindon (12:02) - Salisbury (13:17)
Salisbury (13:31) - Swindon (14:50)
Swidnon (15:02) - Salisbury (16:16)
Salisbury (16:24) - Swindon (17:36)
Swindon (17:55) - Westbury - Yeovil Pen Mill - Yeovil Junction - Exeter

Please let the folks of North Yorkshire know what a pleasure it will be for us to take a 142 off their hands, as it will provide a service for which there's a real need, irrespective of the model of train used. 

[caliwag]

Purely my view, based some hairy journeys between Hull and Selby...70mph: the link plate between the carriages waving up and down like a flag!
However I will canvass opinion from a couple of "Northern" friends.  

[qwerty]

I'm sure you'd find plenty of people in FGW^▸ (First Great Western) land who would be more than happy to keep them, especially after the sterling job Exeter depot has done fixing them up.

Sorry but you won't find many amonst the staff. We were talking about putting up a countdown calendar (XX days to go) in the mess room at Exeter.

Personally I am just hoping that my spine does not turn to dust before the (now allegedly delayed) day of reckoning.

q

[Btline]

I am still stunned over how the LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) 150s will be sent elsewhere when the 172s arrive. The 150s are clapped out and really should be replaced by a rolling DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) production line (basically, 172s) which would gradually eradicate all pre 158 sprinters and pacers, AND THEN CONTINUE to provide MORE carriages to allow for overcrowding relief and growth.

[matt473]

I am still stunned over how the LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) 150s will be sent elsewhere when the 172s arrive. The 150s are clapped out and really should be replaced by a rolling DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) production line (basically, 172s) which would gradually eradicate all pre 158 sprinters and pacers, AND THEN CONTINUE to provide MORE carriages to allow for overcrowding relief and growth.

Sprinters can be more than useful and should be used in addition to new DMUs. Cascaded Sprinters can be used to increase capcity and frequency that are lower down the pecking order when it comes to investment. Good examples are rural lines in Wales that do not have a service or an inedaquate service or the obvious Transwilts line where these units could be vital for providing a service. You also have the potential benefit of Sprinters which can be used on the mainline being used by heritage lines to provide services to areas such as Minehead.

Simply saying sprinters should be scrapped ASAP in my mind is somewhat stupid as with a little thought there are many better uses for them than scrapping when they could be far from life expired. Please remember Btline that not every line has the luxury of a rail service and such units make it more viable for lines to have new services or a reintroduced services. After all running trains is not that expensive, it's the infrastucture and the purchaing of rolling stock that is expensive. If you have access to redundant rolling stock then there is a stronger financial case for improving services in what are areas usually overlooked when it comes otimproving the railways in their area.

[eightf48544]

I am still stunned over how the LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) 150s will be sent elsewhere when the 172s arrive. The 150s are clapped out and really should be replaced by a rolling DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) production line (basically, 172s) which would gradually eradicate all pre 158 sprinters and pacers, AND THEN CONTINUE to provide MORE carriages to allow for overcrowding relief and growth.

An excellent very rational plan in theory. However, the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) is scared stiff that if electrification ever takes off they will have a fleet of relatively new non life expired DMUs on their hands because they are no longer required on the electrified lines. Forgetting that if they are well enough built amd maintained they could be sold for export.

Of course in a recesion it would be a good idea to keep Bombardier fully employed. it's a pity all the other train makers in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) were asset stripped on privatisation.

Sorry but you won't find many amonst the staff. We were talking about putting up a countdown calendar (XX days to go) in the mess room at Exeter.

Personally I am just hoping that my spine does not turn to dust before the (now allegedly delayed) day of reckoning.

q

 I'll take 1000 days if you are having a sweep just to be optomistic.

[Btline]

Ok, the 150s have some time left in them. But not long. I have been on one that could only reach 50 mph. Remember that they have been banned from the Lickey ( ) incline. With a stop at Old Hill (on the Snow Hill line into B'ham) they can only just make it up the gradient outside the station. I have been on one 150 where several attempts were made before our net movement was forward! Others have gear problems, others have fumes coming into the passenger saloons, etc

So I am not trying to deprive others of potentially useful vehicles, but just being realistic about their use. They've clearly had next to no maintenance for some years, and have only started being cleaned regularly since LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) took over!

So yes, they should be used on, say, the Transwilts next year. But in the long run they need to be replaced.

As for 153s, they can't keep to 150 timetables (LM have been there and tried that.... they lost the t-shirt), so there would be a problem of stock subs.