DMU cascades - latest news

[whole diary]

[paul7575]

In my experience, Modern Railways articles seem to be fairly accurate when it comes to rolling stock allocations, so I thought the latest article might be of interest.

What the November issue is suggesting is that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are going to get 30 class 150 vehicles (ie 15 2 car units) from LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) and LO, once 172 deliveries commence. Seems a useful number,    but then comes the flip side... FGW to lose 4 x 150 back to ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))), 7 x 142s back to NT, the single 158 back to SWT^▸ (South West Trains), and 4 coaches of LHCS^▸ (Locomotive Hauled Coaching Stock).

Net improvement therefore only 2 carriages, so FGW are [again] lobbying to keep the 142s...    

Paul

[The SprinterMeister]

In my experience, Modern Railways articles seem to be fairly accurate when it comes to rolling stock allocations, so I thought the latest article might be of interest.

What the November issue is suggesting is that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are going to get 30 class 150 vehicles (ie 15 2 car units) from LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) and LO, once 172 deliveries commence. Seems a useful number,    but then comes the flip side... FGW to lose 4 x 150 back to ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))), 7 x 142s back to NT, the single 158 back to SWT^▸ (South West Trains), and 4 coaches of LHCS^▸ (Locomotive Hauled Coaching Stock).

Net improvement therefore only 2 carriages, so FGW are [again] lobbying to keep the 142s...    

Paul

Surely that works out to be a nil carriage gain if the proposed second set of LHCS also finishes next December?

As no 'West' drivers are going to be trained (or retrained) on locomotives, the LHCS is presumably seen as a short term fix to DMMU shortages and has no long term place at FGW.

[marky7890]

Also from December SWT^▸ (South West Trains) stop operating services west of Exeter, so FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will need to cover these services.

Mark

[anthony215]

Also from December SWT^▸ (South West Trains) stop operating services west of Exeter, so FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will need to cover these services.

Mark

First Great Western are hiring in a extra loco hauled set to cover for this as well as extending the 09:00 Cardiff - Taunton service to Plymouth.

I know that First Great Western  should be receiving at least 30 class 150 dmu's from London midland by the end of 2010 and should recieve 5 class 150 dmu's from London overground next may, although First Great Western will be sending the 5 class 150 dmus they have hired back to Arriva Trains Wales which should help now that Arriva are very short of trains, especially on the  Cardiff valley lines.  Finally  all of the clas 142 pacers will be heading back to Northern at the end of 2010 to boost capcity on services around Manchester

[paul7575]

Also from December SWT^▸ (South West Trains) stop operating services west of Exeter, so FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will need to cover these services.

Mark

That's covered with the currently available stock augmented by a second  set of LHCS^▸ (Locomotive Hauled Coaching Stock). So as it stands those services should still be covered, as MR^▸ (Midland Railway) are only suggesting return of the existing LHCS stock?

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=5476.0

Paul

[paul7575]

I know that First Great Western  should be receiving at least 30 class 150 dmu's from London midland by the end of 2010 and should recieve 5 class 150 dmu's from London overground next may, although First Great Western will be sending the 5 class 150 dmus they have hired back to Arriva Trains Wales which should help now that Arriva are very short of trains, especially on the  Cardiff valley lines.  Finally  all of the clas 142 pacers will be heading back to Northern at the end of 2010 to boost capcity on services around Manchester

I'd exercise caution there. I don't think it's '30 DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)' it's far more likely that's the number of DMU vehicles... Also MR^▸ (Midland Railway) suggest 30 vehicles from 'LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) and LO' combined, not 30 from LM and another 5 from LO - unless you know different of course.  So call it 15 DMUs?

Paul

[The SprinterMeister]

I know that First Great Western  should be receiving at least 30 class 150 dmu's from London midland by the end of 2010 and should recieve 5 class 150 dmu's from London overground next may, although First Great Western will be sending the 5 class 150 dmus they have hired back to Arriva Trains Wales which should help now that Arriva are very short of trains, especially on the  Cardiff valley lines.  Finally  all of the clas 142 pacers will be heading back to Northern at the end of 2010 to boost capcity on services around Manchester

I'd exercise caution there. I don't think it's '30 DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)' it's far more likely that's the number of DMU vehicles... Also MR^▸ (Midland Railway) suggest 30 vehicles from 'LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) and LO' combined, not 30 from LM and another 5 from LO - unless you know different of course.  So call it 15 DMUs?

Paul

Mixture of two and three car sets totalling 30 vehicles. Some of the LM 150s run as three car trains formed with a 150/1 unit with a car from a 150/2 in the middle. They will be reformed into 15 two car trains which should release 7 x 142, 4 x ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) 150/2, 1 x SWT^▸ (South West Trains) 158 and 2 x sets of LHCS^▸ (Locomotive Hauled Coaching Stock). If the LHCS was seen as a long term fix, the unions would almost certainly demand the West drivers be trained (or retrained) to operate it.

[Btline]

Some of the LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) 150s run as three car trains formed with a 150/1 unit with a car from a 150/2 in the middle. They will be reformed into 15 two car trains...

If this is true, then they'll need to spend some time refurbing the centre driving cabs! Yes, they are locked out of use, but they are in a bad state, and many speedos show the wrong speed.

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would be better keeping them as 3 car units, and eliminating overcrowding on busy services.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Hmm.  If they are 'locked out of use', and running 'idle' in the middle of the unit, would they even be able to show the correct speed?

[Btline]

Hmm.  If they are 'locked out of use', and running 'idle' in the middle of the unit, would they even be able to show the correct speed?

Some do. Others are wrong. I doubt ANY are reliable.

[IndustryInsider]

There's usually a sensor on the non driven bogie of the carriage, this may have been disconnected or removed. Either way it would be pretty simple and cheap to fix.

[The SprinterMeister]

There's usually a sensor on the non driven bogie of the carriage, this may have been disconnected or removed. Either way it would be pretty simple and cheap to fix.

Axle 2 is the one that feeds the speedometer on a 150. I doubt the sensor has been disconnected as that would disable the wheelslip protection on the car and put the engine into permanent idle setting. Putting speedometer heads and any other controls / gubbins that may have been removed back in isn't exactly a major job.

Two of the LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) sets are formed with loose DMS^▸ (Driving Motor Standard ) coaches from 150/2's which have had the DMSL^▸ (Driving Motor Standard Lavatory ) cars written off in accidents so it would not be possible to reform these as a 150/2 two car set. Doesnt actually mean these cars are actually headed FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s way. Neither of the original 150/0 sets are heading this way either.

Theres been some wibble about the sets being refreshed after they transfer but possibly retaining the 3+2 seating. 150121 / 127 presumably then get refreshed as part of this process.

[Sprog]

The speedos are simply out of calibration, which just requires simple physical & electrical adjustments to correct.

From what i understand, the 'centre' cabs of the LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) Hybrid 150/1-2 formations were in a bad state, but this has slowly been rectified over time and msot of the cabs are now pretty much in a servieable state. Regradless of if they are boxed in, the cabs of these vehciles will still be covered under the vehicle/units exam scheduale (as we still do on the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Hybrid 158/9s) and so should be kept in a 'hot' (ish) conditon, ready for use. [Often as a quick fix, components from the middle cab may be swapped out or robbed to keep the unit running, but every effot is made to restore/replace these components ASAP]. This is also a requirement under the vehicles lease contract that it is handed back in a fully serviceable conditon to its owners before being re-leased to FGW. If this is not carried out/possible, then the ROSCO^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about) will usualy take steps to recover the costs from the offending TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company), although prior agreements/exemptions could be in place.

I have also heard that there are plans to split the 3-car units down into their respective 2-car formations again. If this happens i think this will effectivley be a two steps forward, one step back situation for the West, as 3-cars would be a nice capcity boost to current peak services, and amongst many other things would potentially be a technical nightmare in terms of reliabilty of the 'boxed' cabs. I recall when the orginal Central Trains hybrid 158/9s were split up. Absolute nightmare.

[The SprinterMeister]

I recall when the orginal Central Trains hybrid 158/9s were split up. Absolute nightmare.

Wessex Trains 158/9's surely? The drivers were expected to check over the cabs in the middle of the sets during prep and test the equipment in it in the same way as they did with the cabs at the ends of the sets. In practice the Wessex 158/9's never ran as three car sets for more than a few days as the extra coach was usually massively out of step in its maintainance programme compared with the other two. The inner cabs therefore never got a prolonged period of disuse.

[Sprog]

I recall when the orginal Central Trains hybrid 158/9s were split up. Absolute nightmare.

Wessex Trains 158/9's surely? The drivers were expected to check over the cabs in the middle of the sets during prep and test the equipment in it in the same way as they did with the cabs at the ends of the sets. In practice the Wessex 158/9's never ran as three car sets for more than a few days as the extra coach was usually massively out of step in its maintainance programme compared with the other two. The inner cabs therefore never got a prolonged period of disuse.

Nah, in about 2004 or so, Central Trains made up some 3-car Hybrid 158s, i think they were classified 1589xxs but i could be mistaken. They had huge relaibilty problems with the units when they were split up again, as the 'boxed' cab equipment & systems had not been used or maintained for such a long period.