Does the 1751 to WOS always track up the relief line to Oxford?

[whole diary]

[willc]

Okay, from the top, sort of.

The axle counters at Ascott-under-Wychwood are pretty old kit by now and I suspect that were it not for them being destined for a skip shortly, Network Rail would probably have got shot of them already due to their aversion to rainwater. Leaves were certainly a problem in places on Tuesday, not least at the east end of Hanborough where my Turbo had a few dicey moments setting off - but the vegetation at that end of the station hasn't been touched, probably one of the few bits of the Cotswold Line that escaped the chainsaws last winter.

The Freightliner is timed to run behind the 17.51 from Reading and Didcot, then to pass it using the through line at Oxford while the 17.51 is parked waiting for the single line to clear. This hanging around exercise only dates back to last December, when the service from Worcester got priority over the single line from Ascott. Before that change, the freight path was the one ahead of the 17.51 and not that long ago it was often used by the bitumen and diesel tanks train from Fawley to Birmingham.

Until last December the 17.51 was meant to stop at Oxford for just a couple of minutes and leave at 18.46. The problem was it often struggled to manage that, either by being late into Oxford or taking ages to disgorge its load of commuters. In turn it then held up the service from Worcester at Ascott, which in turn delayed the 18.21 as it tried to leave Oxford. Though swapping the two services over still didn't solve the problem of what happens if the 17.21 is late, as that then delays the service from Worcester, etc, etc, for the next couple of hours.

It's this issue, and following the 17.21 and crossing yet another train from Worcester at Moreton-in-Marsh that account for the 17.51's rather leisurely schedule, such as being booked to stop at Moreton for four minutes for that train meet and five more at Evesham. Remove the time sat at Oxford, Moreton and Evesham, much of which will be possible with redoubling, and hey presto, same time as the other two trains.

There may well be a case for cutting the 17.51 back to Moreton in the future, because it rarely seems to carry more than two to three dozen people further west, except on Fridays, but on the other hand it does ensure you have that spread of three peak Cotswold Line trains out of London and Reading in the space of an hour, so you're a bit less bothered if you don't quite make the 17.21 than you would be if there was a whole hour to wait.
 

[Btline]

If the 1751's journey time is cut down a bit, then more longer distance passengers will use it.

At the moment, there is hardly any point in getting the 1751, it arrives soon before the 1821. Passengers making a connection at Shrub Hill to the Droitwich and beyond train may as well wait for the 1821 as well! I would rather wait a bit at Pad than at Shrub Hill!

[Mookiemoo]

If the 1751's journey time is cut down a bit, then more longer distance passengers will use it.

At the moment, there is hardly any point in getting the 1751, it arrives soon before the 1821. Passengers making a connection at Shrub Hill to the Droitwich and beyond train may as well wait for the 1821 as well! I would rather wait a bit at Pad than at Shrub Hill!

Precisely -  i'm using it because the 1738 from crowthorne connects nicely with it and if the 1722 is delayed ever so slightly, I can jump on that as a bonus since my train is due in just a couple of minutes after the 1722 leaves.  The next train I can get is the 1748 which connects with the 1822 but for that I have to go to blackwater and then double back on myself - PITA^▸ (Pain in the A**e).  I COULD cycle up to wokingham for more choice but its up hill all the way on the way back :-(

Although i have to say that yesterday a couple got on at READING wanting to go to hereford.  Have to say the TM^‡(resolve) did not engage brain - they asked him was this going to HFD^» (Hereford - next trains) and he said - it gets you most of the way..........forgot to tell them to wait thirty minutes at reading for the 1822 which would take them straight there and be the train they get onto at Worcester!   numpty.

[Exeter]

I wouldn't class him as a numpty - a lot of people like to get as far as they can and it is little difference to either wait 30 mins at Reading or 20/30 minutes at Worcester. I notice a trend with your posts that you are very quick to slag off staff for not knowing as much as you do! Tell me honestly, how many conductors do you think there are that know intimate details of every Great Malvern/Hereford connection on from Worcester??? On my travels to the West of England, I will always catch the first available service and change en route rather then take a chance on a later train! A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush is, I believe, the phrase here.     

[Btline]

So you'd rather wait 30 mins (or more if when the train is late) at Shrub Hill, a dark dingy, unfriendly place; with no facilities or open waiting area..... or Reading, with some of the best facilities in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)!

Normally I would agree about getting as far as poss, but at night as it gets colder, I would rather wait at Reading than WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains).

[Mookiemoo]

I wouldn't class him as a numpty - a lot of people like to get as far as they can and it is little difference to either wait 30 mins at Reading or 20/30 minutes at Worcester. I notice a trend with your posts that you are very quick to slag off staff for not knowing as much as you do! Tell me honestly, how many conductors do you think there are that know intimate details of every Great Malvern/Hereford connection on from Worcester??? On my travels to the West of England, I will always catch the first available service and change en route rather then take a chance on a later train! A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush is, I believe, the phrase here.     

Firstly............

1. If you HAD read most of my threads you can clearly see where I am being serious in criticizing and my use of the word "numpty" was intended more in jest.  Look at the phraseology and context.  

2. Actually, the conductors on the Grat Malvern/Hereford services are a rather small subset and MOST of them have a pretty inside out knowledge of the line, in my experience of about 5 years.

The people at fault IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) were the travellers who were English and seemed to have lost the ability to think for themselves and read the departure board showing the Hereford train on time.   Additionally, even if there had been a problem with the 1822 to Hereford, getting the 1751 would be as useless as a chocolate tea pot since THAT is the train they were getting on at Worcester.

[grahame]

On my travels to the West of England, I will always catch the first available service and change en route rather then take a chance on a later train! A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush is, I believe, the phrase here.     

I agree with your sentiment .. although I always thought the saying was "A train at the platform is worth two on the departure board".   Ticketing regulations excepted, I'll always wait as close to destination as possible - I've seen too many trains fail to turn up or be delayed in my time.   To be fair to the current FGW^▸ (First Great Western) team, reliability is now streets ahead of what it was in the winter of 2006/7, but old habits die hard.

[willc]

If the 1751's journey time is cut down a bit, then more longer distance passengers will use it.

This train leaves London 30 minutes ahead of the 18.21 and, despite all the sitting around, gets to Worcester 18 minutes ahead of it. Are you seriously suggesting that those 12 minutes weigh so heavily in people's calculations that if the gap remained 30 minutes throughout, it would make some critical difference to use of this train? This is like your assertions that running one London train a day 10 minutes quicker will suddenly transform loadings from Worcester.

What would probably encourage more people to use the 17.51 west of Moreton-in-Marsh, or rather would spread the load a bit more evenly across the 17.21, 17.51, 18.21 sequence, would be if the 17.51 went beyond Shrub Hill, say to Malvern, or, failing that, actually connected with something in Worcester. Since the 19.22 started to run all the way to Hereford, I have noticed this service seems a bit busier generally, and not just on Fridays, presumably because people value the ability to go all the way to points west of Worcester without changing.

As things stand, an LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) Birmingham-Hereford leaves Shrub Hill at 20.12, followed by a Warminster-Great Malvern FGW^▸ (First Great Western) train at 20.20, clearing the platform for the 17.51 to terminate at 20.23 - a nonsense that is perpetuated in December. Is it asking too much to reverse the order in which the FGW trains run from Norton junction into Worcester, thus making the connection possible? This change would at least benefit people going to Foregate Street and the Malvern stations - and surely doesn't have to wait for the redoubling to be implemented.

[eightf48544]

If the 1751's journey time is cut down a bit, then more longer distance passengers will use it.

As things stand, an LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) Birmingham-Hereford leaves Shrub Hill at 20.12, followed by a Warminster-Great Malvern FGW^▸ (First Great Western) train at 20.20, clearing the platform for the 17.51 to terminate at 20.23 - a nonsense that is perpetuated in December. Is it asking too much to reverse the order in which the FGW trains run from Norton junction into Worcester, thus making the connection possible? This change would at least benefit people going to Foregate Street and the Malvern stations - and surely doesn't have to wait for the redoubling to be implemented.

You can't have connections like that far too sensible. Also one train is from a rival TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) so couldn't possibly connect with an FGW train. It would be like having bus stops near to stations.

[Not from Brighton]

Common sense was banned in Worcester in the 70's