X Country HSTs

[whole diary]

[devon_metro]

trolley can transfer between units.

What planet do you live in sometimes!!?

[Btline]

What happens on a DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) train them? They don't have guards. In fact my scenario would be better than a DOO train, as there would be one guard.

And why can't trolleys transfer between units at a station stop?

XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) don't split trains. Even if they did, the extra guard could simply join at the split point.

Don't get me wrong, the best thing to happen would be for a Voyager lengthening project. But the way things stand, it would be better for some 2x4 voyagers to reduce overcrowding. I am trying to put forward some ideas, there is no need to reply in such a way!

[grahame]

Yes, a guard is needed in each voyager.

What if someone falls ill, needs an ambulance.  Or a fight breaks out needing police assisstance etc.

I think it would be pretty risky having a rammed voyager, with no guard to offer assisstance and to patrol the safety of the train AT ALL TIMES!!!

My goodness ... how times change.   In my youth, we had "singles" in slam door coaches - 9 compartments each with six seats in a carriage. Oddly, fights didn't break out very often between the commuters 

[dog box]

Lengthening Voyagers is i believe virtually impossible, due to the electronic systems involved

[Btline]

Yes, a guard is needed in each voyager.

What if someone falls ill, needs an ambulance.  Or a fight breaks out needing police assisstance etc.

I think it would be pretty risky having a rammed voyager, with no guard to offer assisstance and to patrol the safety of the train AT ALL TIMES!!!

My goodness ... how times change.   In my youth, we had "singles" in slam door coaches - 9 compartments each with six seats in a carriage. Oddly, fights didn't break out very often between the commuters 

Exactly, it seems that we can't cope these days. Just like we can't tell that a wet floor is slippery. This PC nonsense needs to stop.

[paul7575]

XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) don't split trains. Even if they did, the extra guard could simply join at the split point.

Don't get me wrong, the best thing to happen would be for a Voyager lengthening project. But the way things stand, it would be better for some 2x4 voyagers to reduce overcrowding. I am trying to put forward some ideas, there is no need to reply in such a way!

'XC don't split trains. Even if they did...'  Is that hedging your bets?

Of course AXC^» (Arriva Cross Country - about) split/join trains en route.  I've been on such trains at both Reading and Newcastle, where only one portion has carried on.  The only mystery about it is there is nothing mentioned in the timetables.  There are a some 2 x 4 car services - I was on one from Bournemouth to Southampton on Friday last.  Again, there is no sensible way of predicting when they run...

Paul

[devon_metro]

Yes, a guard is needed in each voyager.

What if someone falls ill, needs an ambulance.  Or a fight breaks out needing police assisstance etc.

I think it would be pretty risky having a rammed voyager, with no guard to offer assisstance and to patrol the safety of the train AT ALL TIMES!!!

My goodness ... how times change.   In my youth, we had "singles" in slam door coaches - 9 compartments each with six seats in a carriage. Oddly, fights didn't break out very often between the commuters 

Exactly, it seems that we can't cope these days. Just like we can't tell that a wet floor is slippery. This PC nonsense needs to stop.

Are you saying OAPs should be potentially subjected to a drunken brawl??

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

first off regarding electrical systems that is no doubt correct but does anybody know the maximum number of coaches that can be added before it is an issue, second of all, 'doo' is for routes on which there are barriers at all stations and the need for ticket checks onboard is redundant... these services are short in comparison and are a totally different type of service, long distance intercity services are expected to have onboard customer services teams which can be reached with ease in order to assist if needed how can they do this if they are effectively sealed on another train during the journey? you will also notice that trains are now built so that you can walk threw them using double voyagers or any closed end dmu for that matter although due to suitable stock shortages is necessary is ultimately a step backwards on safety service and convenience

[paul7575]

Lengthening Voyagers is i believe virtually impossible, due to the electronic systems involved

It's only impossible because no-one will buy the necessary intermediate coaches. Why else do you think the driving cars are A and F?  What you may have heard is that they cannot be remarshalled quickly without altering the software, but the Meridians have proved that shortening and lengthening is achievable. It isn't that long ago that people were saying that the Hull Trains 222s couldn't possibly multiple with the EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) ones, but it just needed new software.

Paul

[paul7575]

'doo' is for routes on which there are barriers at all stations and the need for ticket checks onboard is redundant...

Not so - I can think of a number of DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) routes in the London area where there aren't barriers at all the stations, although many more stations are currently in the process of being fitted.  Another example is Chiltern - they are DOO south of Banbury with some ungated stations.  There are many prerequsites for DOO, but I don't believe ticket barriers are one of them.

Paul

[readytostart]

Couple of point from XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) paper work, where doube voyagers operate, the guard must travel in the rear set, if there is an assisting Train Manager on board then they will travel in the front set, the guard will retain responsibility for train protection and emergency arrangements, along with what people see as the guards job such as train despatch. If there is no assisting guard but a member of catering staff, then the catering staff should travel in the front unit as they are trained in how to stop the train and make a crew call. In the worst case scenario of a double voyager with only one Train Manager and a driver then the guard is qualified to swap units in an emergency at the lineside, whilst I know passengers hate announcements, if they took the time to read the safety notices as requested, then they should know how to stop the train in an emergency.
As regards to Voyager lengths, it's handy to remember that in the West Country HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) have grandfather rights, 220/221s don't. Here are the general restrictions for Voyager operation:
North of Edinburgh: Only single units can operate, If in multiple the rear unit must be locked out of use unless special working instructions are issued.
South of Edinburgh: A maximum of nine vehicles may be available for passenger use, a number of stations may have platforms that are more restrictive.
South of Birmingham: A maximum of ten vehicles may be available for passenger use, some stations may have platforms that are more restrictive.
West of Exeter: A maximum of eight vehicles may be available for public use. Additional vehicles must be locked out of use unless special working instructions are issued.
Wrest of Plymouth: A maximum of seven vehicles may be available for passenger use. Additional vehicles must be locked out of use unless special working instructions are issued.

[super tm]

Yes, a guard is needed in each voyager.

What if someone falls ill, needs an ambulance.  Or a fight breaks out needing police assisstance etc.

I think it would be pretty risky having a rammed voyager, with no guard to offer assisstance and to patrol the safety of the train AT ALL TIMES!!!

No they dont.  What about 142 with no corridor connections.  There is no requirement for a guard to be in each voyager. 

[Btline]

Exactly, so so far there is no need for double staff! So it appears I am well and truly on planet Earth.

[devon_metro]

Exactly, so so far there is no need for double staff! So it appears I am well and truly on planet Earth.

Please, expand on your trolley swapping situation, I'd be interested to see any things you've over looked such as extended station dwell due to unloading and reloading of the trolley via ramp.

[JayMac]

Exactly, so so far there is no need for double staff! So it appears I am well and truly on planet Earth.

Please, expand on your trolley swapping situation, I'd be interested to see any things you've over looked such as extended station dwell due to unloading and reloading of the trolley via ramp.

Two trollies? One cash float?