Bristol connections: Metro, Bus Rapid Transit, PTE, ITA and local councils - discussion

[whole diary]

[TonyK]

Oh dear. It seems MetroBust may not be the solution to our problems that we thought it was, after all! From the Bristol Post:

Public may have to help fund Metrobus as talks to find an operator stall
By M_Ribbeck  |  Posted: August 24, 2016


Metrobust

A question mark has been placed over the long-awaited £200 million Metrobus scheme after it was claimed there is a dispute over how the service will be funded.

The scheme is due to come into operation next year but still has no operator and public funding may be required to keep services running.

According to reports from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) negotiations over which operator will run the new £200m rapid transport service have stalled as companies are reluctant to run the service on an entirely commercial basis.

The people behind Metrobus admit that they may have to entice firms with public subsidies.

Read more: New safety fears over Metrobus after another crash on Cambridge guided bus way




The West of England Partnership said Bristol, South Glocuestershire and North Somerset council are "actively negotiating" with bus operators and the discussions are commercially sensitive.

A spokeswoman said: "We have always been clear that the aim is that the MetroBus services are run entirely on a commercial basis via a quality partnership scheme that sets minimum standards for frequencies, quality of vehicles and maximum fares, supported by a voluntary partnership agreement with one or more operator.

"Of course should negotiations not be successful, we have a range of back up plans which could include formal contracts to run all or some services on a contracted basis.

"This might require the use of public money following a competitive procurement process, but this would depend on the situation when negotiations conclude - which all parties agree should be in about three-four weeks' time."

First Bus, Wessex and the Bath Bus Company RAPT were said to be in the running for the Metrobus contract.

The Ashton Vale to Temple Meads route is currently scheduled to be completed by July 2017 and will be the first service to run. The route is expected to commence in August 2017.




The Metrobus scheme has not been popular with some local residents affected by the construction. In March 2015 a protest against the scheme which cost Bristol City Council over £1m saw campaigners perched in trees on council-owned land at Stapleton Road allotments to save them from being cut down to be replaced by a bus-only junction.

Roadworks went ahead regardless, with the affected allotment plots relocated and additional trees planted on their new site.

In January 2016 upset residents in Stoke Gifford submitted a petition to South Gloucestershire Council demanding them to change plans of the Metrobus extension through Hatchet Road.

The completed Metrobus service will see routes from Ashton Vale to Temple Meads, North Fringe to Hengrove and the South Bristol Link.

I love the understatement:

The Metrobus scheme has not been popular with some local residents affected by the construction.

This is highly embarrassing whatever the spin. The draft Quality Partnership Scheme issued in May 2015 stipulated that operators would pay MetroBust to use the special busway and lanes. That relationship has been reversed, turning one of the streams of illusory income that was going to pay for the wretched scheme into an ongoing cost.

[trainer]

The scheme is due to come into operation next year but still has no operator and public funding may be required to keep services running.

Well, imagine my surprise...

[grahame]

http://captiongenerator.com/102290/MetroBus-HQ

[TonyK]

I saw that one earlier grahame - PMSL^▸ (I found that most hilarious)!

[trainer]

http://captiongenerator.com/102290/MetroBus-HQ

I have seen a few re-captioned versions of this scene (and indeed own the film) and this is by far the most witty, and genuinely satirical attempt to make a political point and not just use bathos to undercut the dramatic delivery. Congratulations to whoever did it.

Incidentally, if Bruno Ganz (who plays Hitler so well) was suitably paid for all the YouTube versions of this scene, he's have doubled his original fee!

[Noggin]

http://captiongenerator.com/102290/MetroBus-HQ

I have seen a few re-captioned versions of this scene (and indeed own the film) and this is by far the most witty, and genuinely satirical attempt to make a political point and not just use bathos to undercut the dramatic delivery. Congratulations to whoever did it.

Incidentally, if Bruno Ganz (who plays Hitler so well) was suitably paid for all the YouTube versions of this scene, he's have doubled his original fee!

That is very funny indeed! I presume that everyone has seen this week's update, still no operator.

[simonw]

Lets try and be positive.

If MetroBus has no private operator

• perhaps we can have a public one
• perhaps we can franchise routes out to private operators
• perhaps we could run trams on the dedicated routes
• perhaps we could enjoy the benifit of the two new roads that will save a lot of time and congestion in North and South Bristol
• perhaps we could have proper, and safe cycle routes into and out of Bristol, rather than a metre width of road protected by a painted line

There are so many ways we can use the roads and lanes to improve traffic in Bristol, so please lets be positive.
 

[Noggin]

Lets try and be positive.

If MetroBus has no private operator

• perhaps we can have a public one
• perhaps we can franchise routes out to private operators
• perhaps we could run trams on the dedicated routes
• perhaps we could enjoy the benifit of the two new roads that will save a lot of time and congestion in North and South Bristol
• perhaps we could have proper, and safe cycle routes into and out of Bristol, rather than a metre width of road protected by a painted line

There are so many ways we can use the roads and lanes to improve traffic in Bristol, so please lets be positive.
 

I'm trying hard to see the positive, but I can't help feeling that it has distorted transport planning to support its business case, and that £200m would have been been a lot better spent on phase one of a tram system that joined Temple Meads to the city.

[ellendune]

I'm trying hard to see the positive, but I can't help feeling that it has distorted transport planning to support its business case, and that £200m would have been been a lot better spent on phase one of a tram system that joined Temple Meads to the city.

If the original light rail proposal had gone ahead, it would have used the alignment now being used to create "four track now".  Any new proposal will have to find another alignment and so will increase total rail capacity even further.  After all the previous capacity north from Temple Meads was not 4 tracks, but 6! (4 GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and 2 MR^▸ (Midland Railway)/LMS^▸ (London Midland Scottish - 1923 to 1948) via Fishponds and Mangotsfield). 

[simonw]

From my historic posts, I have clearly expressed my order of preference as

• Light rail system, the Avon Metro, that was sabotaged by the Government in the 1990s
• Tram system, sabotaged by the Government in the light costs in Manchester, Nottingham and Sheffield, 2000s
• Express bus, the only option left

Any city area, like Bristol (with SG, BANES and NS) needs an extended rail system, light rail system, Tram routes and Express bus routes.

The worst situation we can have is an Express Bus System with no operator.

[TonyK]

The worst situation we can have is an Express Bus System with no operator.

Or buses.

Many armchair experts, myself included, saw this coming years ago. In part, that view was developed by First Bus.  They said they saw no need for the guided busway between Ashton Vale and Temple Meads, and wouldn't use it if they had to pay. That was some 5 years ago, and I don't believe they have changed their minds. The Long Ashton Park and Ride service is subsidised to the tune of around £700,000 per annum. The Avonmouth P&R^▸ (Park and Ride) service to Clifton has been dropped, due to lack of interest. First say they are struggling to get enough drivers for their existing services, despite paying more than the other companies. That augurs badly for MetroBust, especially as there won't be a profit to be had. Our councils will have to pay operators to run it, but what will happen to the "conventional" routes then?

[Noggin]

The worst situation we can have is an Express Bus System with no operator.

Or buses.

Many armchair experts, myself included, saw this coming years ago. In part, that view was developed by First Bus.  They said they saw no need for the guided busway between Ashton Vale and Temple Meads, and wouldn't use it if they had to pay. That was some 5 years ago, and I don't believe they have changed their minds. The Long Ashton Park and Ride service is subsidised to the tune of around £700,000 per annum. The Avonmouth P&R^▸ (Park and Ride) service to Clifton has been dropped, due to lack of interest. First say they are struggling to get enough drivers for their existing services, despite paying more than the other companies. That augurs badly for MetroBust, especially as there won't be a profit to be had. Our councils will have to pay operators to run it, but what will happen to the "conventional" routes then?

You know things are bad when First Bus seem to be the ones making sense!

The number 51 (centre to Hengrove Hospital via Wells Rd) being dropped by First gives a good indication of what may happen to the "conventional" routes. First cited lack of drivers and inability to maintain a regular timetable, but it may have been a shot across the bows of the council too. Regardless, it threatened to remove a bus service from a large chunk of south Bristol, particularly important as the bus serves the hospital, leisure centre, ASDA and college.

[johnneyw]

Bristol Evening Post online today has an article about a possible future tram or rail link to Bristol Airport. Trams in Bristol? Deja Vu anybody?

[grahame]

Bristol Evening Post online today has an article about a possible future tram or rail link to Bristol Airport. Trams in Bristol? Deja Vu anybody?

See [here].

Trams could run out of Bristol Airport to the city centre as part of plans to improve transport links on a busy commuter route.

North Somerset Council has applied to the Government for nearly £2 million in funding to draw up proposals to improve links on A38 between the city and the expanding Bristol Airport. Council chiefs say that thought needs to be given to improving links along the A38 to meet "future infrastructure needs". It said also wanted to improve roads and transport to the south of the airport.


The Government has put aside £475 million in funding for major transport schemes across the UK^▸ (United Kingdom). North Somerset Council wants £1.95 million to draw up a business case for the SWBL. The council is also putting in £200,000 towards the costs of producing the report, and a further £250,000 has been earmarked from 'external contributions.' The overall cost of pulling together the report is estimated at £2.8 million.

The business case will be drawn up over the next three years. If the new tram system is approved, funding would have to come largely from Government coffers.


The A38 is already a busy commuter route in and out of the city. The expansion of Bristol Airport – which will see passenger numbers soar to 10 million in the coming years – is also expected to add to the traffic congestion.

North Somerset Council deputy leader and executive member for highways, Councillor Elfan Ap Rees said: "We are looking at ways to improve the economic links in the Bristol South West area with particular reference to Bristol Airport. "The A38 is already a congested route with a number of bottlenecks getting in and out of Bristol. What we are doing at the moment is some exploratory work.

etc

From comments:

We already have an underused railway line (the one to Weston super Mare)and the missing track between Blackwell and the airport can be as short as 3 miles. so whats the problem? Can i claim £2 million for this consultancy please?

If the airport was at Filton you would have most of the rail lines in place and easy motorway access but no that would have been to easy Expand the airport out in the sticks and litter the A38 with needless traffic lights and be amazed when the roads block up Only in backward Bristol

Absolutely will NOT happen. The reason is because it's too good an idea. It's too progressive. It's a brilliant forward thinking idea. It's the future. Sadly the minority run Bristol so anything that might put us on the map or might make our brilliant city better will be fought by the few and they will win. Progression and Bristol are not now nor ever will be in the same sentance to the end.

[Chris from Nailsea]

We already have an underused railway line (the one to Weston super Mare) and the missing track between Blackwell and the airport can be as short as 3 miles. so whats the problem?

Two things: it's Backwell, not Blackwell; and you'd need to overcome a considerable gradient to reach the airport at 622 feet above sea level within a very constrained route.