Bristol connections: Metro, Bus Rapid Transit, PTE, ITA and local councils - discussion

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

considering Bristol is the only city to have said yes to having a directly elected mayor I can see the government being generous with funding just to show the cities who voted no what they are missing out on.

That's a very astute comment, if I may say so! I hadn't thought if it like that. Bet you're spot on, as well. Interesting!

To be fair, it was Four Track Now! who first made the point a little earlier in the thread that Bristol may well have money lavished on it from Central Government follwing the 'Yes' vote in the referendum for a directly elected Mayor.

Might need to be a Mayor of the right political 'colour' though (blueish yellow?)..... and perhaps not a man in a monkey suit as was the case in Hartlepool when Stuart Drummond - who played Hartlepool FC^‡(resolve)'s mascot H'angus the Monkey - was elected in 2002. He's since been re-elected twice more.

He did stand down as mascot following his first election victory and, on the face of it, appears to take the job seriously. Which probably explains his subsequent re-elections.

So, contradicting myself, maybe a comedy character as Mayor in Bristol wouldn't be such a bad thing. If Hartlepool and London can get by with 'em...... 

[paul7575]

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/pound-1billion-revolution/story-16481396-detail/story.html

I'm not too up to speed on these plans, but isn't it all about linking various cross Bristol local services and maybe improving frequencies, and marketing it as some sort of local network?  Does it involve or need any new rolling stock?

Not forgetting the various bits of four tracking mentioned in the CP5^▸ (Control Period 5 - the five year period between 2014 and 2019) HLOS^▸ (High Level Output Specification) proposals by NR^» (Network Rail - home page).

Paul

[Rhydgaled]

The Bristol metro map on http://greaterbristolrail.com/ shows a metro service out to Yate, Patchway, Weston-Super-Mare and Bath Spa. From reading text on the site, I think this is planned to be half-hourly.

If the plans do not include electrification, then Yate to Bristol will be diesel under the wires for much of it (unless Yate is being electrified anyway, which I don't think it is). Similarly, if the Weston-Super-Mare service runs through Temple Meads to one of the northern destonations, rather than terminating at Temple Meads, it incurs quite a bit of under-wires running. One hopes a half-hourly metro service (on top of the existing hourly service to Taunton?) would make a very good case for extened electrification in the area.

[Tim]

The Bristol metro map on http://greaterbristolrail.com/ shows a metro service out to Yate, Patchway, Weston-Super-Mare and Bath Spa. From reading text on the site, I think this is planned to be half-hourly.

If the plans do not include electrification, then Yate to Bristol will be diesel under the wires for much of it (unless Yate is being electrified anyway, which I don't think it is). Similarly, if the Weston-Super-Mare service runs through Temple Meads to one of the northern destonations, rather than terminating at Temple Meads, it incurs quite a bit of under-wires running. One hopes a half-hourly metro service (on top of the existing hourly service to Taunton?) would make a very good case for extened electrification in the area.

I agree,  this could all dove-tail rather nicely into a national electrfication plan if only our political masters had the sense to see it.   

Planned GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification -> then extend to WSM -> then extend to Taunton.  By which time we might have the MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about) electrifed and the eVoyagers running which would give corss country routes some good milage uner the wires.

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

The problem with increasing the number of lines to be electrified, is that all over the country there are many similar situations to that of Bristol and how do you prioritise which area out of many would get the electrification given that the available capital finance is very unlikely to be made available for all such schemes. Secondly, electrification as already authorised will release many diesel trains as electric trains replace diesels. A vast increase in electrification would mean a much more costly and therefore likely to be the less economic option of stock acquisition needed to run such services.
What is needed is a longer term plan for the development of the national rail network over the next 50 years or so and I cannot see that happening from either of the major political parties. The much greater use of electic traction on the continent has been achieved over the last 50 years or so. Its just that Britain has frozen rail development for so many years that it would take many years to catch up with better continental systems.

[anthony215]

The problem with increasing the number of lines to be electrified, is that all over the country there are many similar situations to that of Bristol and how do you prioritise which area out of many would get the electrification given that the available capital finance is very unlikely to be made available for all such schemes. Secondly, electrification as already authorised will release many diesel trains as electric trains replace diesels. A vast increase in electrification would mean a much more costly and therefore likely to be the less economic option of stock acquisition needed to run such services.
What is needed is a longer term plan for the development of the national rail network over the next 50 years or so and I cannot see that happening from either of the major political parties. The much greater use of electic traction on the continent has been achieved over the last 50 years or so. Its just that Britain has frozen rail development for so many years that it would take many years to catch up with better continental systems.

I have to agree with your comments and hopefully next week we will have full confirmation from the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) government about the Cardiff Valley lines being wired which could mean a few class 150's could become available if refurbished to meet dda regulations for use elsewhere.

I would suspect come 2016 we will see a couple of class 165's operating around Bristol still it will take some getting used to considering how I have come to think of them only operating near to London.

Still as you said great news and hopefully we wont have too wait too long before there is a regular train service to Portishead which I think will be welcomed by many and should prove a hit from day 1.

[TonyK]

The follow-up story with more details, is even more encouraging.

THE £100-million Bristol Metro train network which will bring massive improvements to local railways is to go ahead with the first services running by 2016.

It comes as a result of the City Deal agreed between local council and the Government which was announced yesterday by Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg. It will mean the line to Portishead being re-opened and trains running to the town again within four years. The Henbury line will also re-open in 2018 as part of the plans. The list of new and re-opened stations include:
 ​

 Coming soon
• • • •



● Ashton Gate

● Horfield

● Ashley Hill

● Saltford

● and Henbury

They will form part of a local rail network that supporters hope will see trains running every half an hour.

The dramatic improvements are part of the £1 billion deal, which the Post revealed yesterday, and which was confirmed by treasury minister Danny Alexander on a visit to Bristol.

The City Deal has been agreed between Westminster and councils in Bristol and the surrounding area which promises to revolutionise the way the area is run.

The plans also include the re-opening of the so-called Henbury Loop in north Bristol.

The fine details of the deal, which will see money raised in parts of the city through business rates kept in Bristol, were still being worked on as late as Wednesday night.

Mr Alexander claimed the deal represents a revolution in the way the city is run and financed and will see power shifted back from Westminster to the West Country.

The minister said: "Local leaders and strong leadership are essential to the future prosperity of Britain's cities. These new powers will allow Bristol and the surrounding area to decide its own priorities for local public transport and flexibility on skills training – benefiting both employers and young people.

"By allowing Bristol to keep the business rates growth in its Enterprise Areas, this deal will support up to £1 billion of investment locally.

"This unique deal will hugely benefit ordinary people and businesses in Bristol. It also marks an important step in Government's commitment to decentralise power and re-balance local economies."

The Enterprise Zone set up around Temple Meads station is set to be at the centre of economic growth for the city. All the money raised in the area in business rates will be kept in the city to fund major public projects and improvements to the road network in the city centre.

Talks are taking place to bring the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) to the Enterprise Zone and to build a 12,000-seat indoor arena on vacant land close to the station.

Around £500 million would be raised but the four local authorities in the region have been given permission to raise loans against the expected revenue with immediate effect.

Mr Alexander believes the City Deal and Bristol's decision to opt for an elected mayor will give it a major advantage over other regional rivals. He said: "What we are doing is giving Bristol the chance to shape its own destiny, and an elected mayor will certainly help in shaping that process. This is a deal and of course we expect something in return in terms of jobs and economic growth but what we are doing is putting the building blocks in place for the future of Bristol and the region."

The deal has seen Bristol council working alongside North Somer- set, South Gloucester- shire and Bath and North East Somerset councils. There are also plans to create a new public body or company to take control of transport across the Bristol region.

The Local Enterprise Partnership, the organisation which replaced the South West Regional Development Agency, has played a key role in the negotiations.

Colin Skellet, the chairman of the organisation, said: "I think this is great for Bristol and the surrounding area and has come after a lot of negotiations. This is the first time the benefits of economic growth will be ploughed straight back into the city rather than being redistributed elsewhere."

He added: "This announcement is a massive vote of confidence from Government in our region's businesses to drive growth and create jobs. It is also an excellent example of what can be achieved by the four local authorities and business working together so effectively. This is a deal for hi-tech growth that builds on the West of England's strengths in engineering, the digital and creative sectors. It gives us unprecedented input into the skills training of our young people to ensure we're meeting the future needs of businesses across the city and region."

Bristol City Council leader Simon Cook said: "The package represents a historic devolution of powers from Whitehall that we have long argued for. It is very good news that business rates will be back in local hands and that we will be able to borrow against those revenues to invest in development. For the first time we'll have the ability to drive our own economic strategy and make the much-needed investment in our infrastructure, in particular in our rail system which is in urgent need of more capacity."

Business leaders also welcomed the announcement. Michael Bothamley, president of Bristol Chamber of Commerce, said: "This is fantastic news, it provides a huge boost for business and our wider community and will help stimulate investor confidence in this area. Investment on this scale into our local rail infrastructure, to boost skills and help create the space for new jobs, are things business has been asking for and are what this deal is all about. It's proof that government is backing what we have all been saying – that this city region will deliver substantial new private sector job growth.

"Very significantly, it provides the financial incentive for our local authorities to further support economic growth and job creation. It's also another success for close partnership working between business and local government through our Local Enterprise Partnership."

Bristol is one of eight cities across the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) to have agreed a deal with the Government.

The city's MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) were broadly supportive although Labour's Kerry McCarthy declined to make a comment.

Charlotte Leslie, Conservative MP for Bristol North West, said the announcement was a "game-changer" for the city. She said: "This is obviously fantastic news. The Government has recognised just how central proper transport infrastructure is to Bristol. It really has been lacking in relation to other cities."

City leaders will need to work with neighbouring local authorities to manage the investment, which ministers said would boost the economy by up to £1 billion.

Kingswood Tory MP Chris Skidmore said: "This is a milestone moment for Bristol and the surrounding region. Never has so much power or funds been given back from Whitehall to the local community.

"This deal is about trusting local businesses and organisations who know how the region should be run best, giving them freedom to decide our city's destiny rather than the old-fashioned top-down 'We know best' approach of the state. This is an exciting time for Bristol."

Bristol West Lib Dem MP Stephen Williams added: "This deal will give local leaders the power and money to grow the Greater Bristol economy and transform our transport. I'm pleased to have helped in the negotiations."

The fine pine print of the package includes:

● A new growth incentive and the economic investment fund, which will allow West of England to keep 100 per cent of growth in business rates over 25 years to invest in projects, allowing authorities to deliver an investment programme worth £1 billion over 30 years.

● Ten years of major funding allocation for the Greater Bristol Metro; flexible delivery for the Bus Rapid Transit Network which will allow savings to be recycled locally; and new powers over rail planning and delivery.

● A Public Property Board will manage up to £1 billion of city council assets and an estimated 180 land and property assets to unlock more land for economic growth or housing and to lever in additional investment.

● A city growth hub with up to £2.25 million of government funding which will provide additional support to inward investors. This will be based in the Temple Quarter Enterprise Zone and will work closely with UK Trade and Investment.

● The business community and local enterprise partnership will have more influence in skills provision in the city region, in particular the £114 million Skills Funding Agency funding for Further Education colleges for post-16 provision, to help capture employer demand.

The devil, of course, will be in the detail. An enormous deal of horse-trading will have to take place, beginning with four-track to Filton (a particular interest of mine!). Vast sums have been "promised" - in usual government fashion, this seems to announce cash already allocated, as well as income from places that do not yet exist, but firm plans will cost hard cash, and I have no doubt the local authorities will be returning to the treasury for money for specific parts of the projects.

It is, without doubt, excellent news, though.

[ellendune]

...beginning with four-track to Filton (a particular interest of mine!).

Really I would never have guessed it from your username!

Will four tracks be possible through Filton Abbey Wood? Orwill there always be a short stretch of 3 track?

[anthony215]

...beginning with four-track to Filton (a particular interest of mine!).

Really I would never have guessed it from your username!

Will four tracks be possible through Filton Abbey Wood? Orwill there always be a short stretch of 3 track?

 I dont think you could fit 4 tracks through Filton Abbey Wood there just isnt the room unless you cut the embankment back so more than likely it will stay as 3 tracks

[TonyK]

...beginning with four-track to Filton (a particular interest of mine!).

Really I would never have guessed it from your username!

I didn't think of that.

I dont think you could fit 4 tracks through Filton Abbey Wood there just isnt the room unless you cut the embankment back so more than likely it will stay as 3 tracks
Posted on: Today at 12:23:10 PM
 Posted by: ellendune

Abbey Wood may be the tricky one. There were certainly four tracks to Filton when I first moved to Bristol in the late 70s. Of course, Abbey Wood station wasn't there then, and IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly), the tracks diverged at the old Filton station, with two heading for Wales, and two for Parkway.Now, with the three platforms at Abbey Wood, it may still be possible to put a fourth line to the very west, without a platform, but whether the benefit will outweigh the cost is another matter. With four stations between BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) and Abbey Wood, however, it will still be viable to four-track to Horfield

[chuffed]

I am very suprprised that there has not been much more comment about this. Apparently the best news about railways in the Bristol area for 50 years ...to be met with an almost deafening silence on this forum ! Or is everyone feeling cynical that it will never happen ??

[JayMac]

I'm cautiously optimistic about the news. 

The promise of money is most welcome, but as has so often been the case in the past, this is but the first step and it is very easy for that step to be retraced. Once I see firm commitments from Network Rail to carry out the necessary work on Filton Bank, the Portishead Line and Henbury Loop then I'll be much more excited.

The political will is (currently) there and some of the funding is in place. These are two important steps but there are many more steps and one or two hurdles to overcome.

[paul7575]

The next step will be seeing if it is in the next HLOS^▸ (High Level Output Specification)/SoFA for CP5^▸ (Control Period 5 - the five year period between 2014 and 2019) (2014-19) which is expected before the parliamentary recess on the 17th of July.

The ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) website has a deadline for it of Jul 31st.

Paul

Jargon buster:  HLOS/SoFA = the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)'s High Level Output Specification and its accompanying Statement of Funds Available.

[TonyK]

I am very suprprised that there has not been much more comment about this. Apparently the best news about railways in the Bristol area for 50 years ...to be met with an almost deafening silence on this forum ! Or is everyone feeling cynical that it will never happen ??

I'm with you, Chuffed! I also agree that money "promised" isn't money spent, Bristol Evening Post have been known to get it wrong on occasion, and that with Bristol City Clowncil involved, nothing can be certain. But it does look like excellent news, and now it's out in the public domain, it will be hard to hide a reversal.

HLOS^▸ (High Level Output Specification) is the key here. The obvious clever thing to do is to reopen Portishead and Henbury, and electrify those as well as the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and the Severn Beach line. The economies of scale will be huge, and the investment will quickly begin to show a return, especially when the deepwater port at Avonmouth begins to produce the vast volumes of freight traffic predicted. We won't need bi-mode locos, or diesels running under wires. But the numbers involved are eye-watering, and governments will always invest the smallest amount possible, and leave the problems it causes to the next administration.

Bristol is to get extra local funding as well as the electrification project, but as I see it, lack of four-tracking will reduce the service we have now, not increase it, with the exception of London trains. Telling the transport minister that it's good to see the electrics, but could we have another ^60 to ^100 million takes nerve, especially with this stupid Bus Rabid thing in prospect, but will show how real the commitment to the Bristol Metro is.

In the meantime, I suppose it is up to us to at least show enthusiasm for what seems a brilliant deal. I would be even happier if we had true professionals spending the money, rather than wannabe political hacks with a party whip to follow.

[JayMac]

HLOS^▸ (High Level Output Specification) is the key here.

I expect Ms Greening's forthcoming announcement (see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=10987.msg114060#msg114060) will also tie in with Network Rail's shortly announced projects to be funded in Control Period 5, 2014-2019.