Great Western Railway: on-board catering, buffets, Travelling Chef, Pullman - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

This was published on the WNXX^▸ (Stored Unserviceable, Mainline Locos HQ All Classes) website today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lML1pLI_heQ&sns=fb

Have your hanky ready

Very regrettable.
And despite the facility to retrofit a buffet being "an essential requirement" of the new DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) I don't think that anyone believes that this will happen.
So long distance travellers are stuck with a no buffet, high density interurban DMU for a generation at least. how is that for progress.

I suspect it was a Business decision based on the Buffets not making sufficient (or any) profit. As with so many things, if you don't use them, you lose them - if they were profitable (or more profitable/useful than having more seats) the company would have ensured they were retained.......very few businesses run on whimsy.

[broadgage]

In my view, providing a buffet is part of running a railway, and a buffet facility should be provided on all trains intended for long distance, express, or inter city services. And used on all but very lightly loaded services.

I am not convinced that it has to make a profit, it is part of running a railway. How much profit is made by luggage racks ? or by the toilets ? Yet these facilities continue to be provided, even if reluctantly.

[Tim]

"There is this paradox that Britain has never been so rich and the amount of money and possessions most people have cannot be compared with what people had when I first arrived. And yet the country behaves as if it has never been so poor. The refrain you constantly hear is “we can’t afford it”. It feels like we are permanently in this age of austerity in which we not only can’t afford large things – housing for all that need it, cottage hospitals in every town – but also small things such as flower beds on roundabouts. All these things the country had when I first came here, and when we were all much poorer."

Bill Bryson on how Britain has changed since he first arrived.

[Thatcham Crossing]

To answer both Broadgage and Tim, the answer to all of the above is that most big businesses are either run by accountants, or at the very least have accountants that carry a lot of influence with senior management.

Their view is that there is no point in being in business if you're not going to generate a profit and dividends for shareholders.

A trolley going up and down the train (if it can!) may make as many sales as a static buffet, but costs a lot less to buy and probably to operate.

The only way to make the "I am not convinced that it has to make a profit" argument into reality is probably to re-nationalise, and even then their wouldn't be a bottomless pit of cash, cost targets would have to be met etc.

[Tim]

The only way to make the "I am not convinced that it has to make a profit" argument into reality is probably to re-nationalise, and even then their wouldn't be a bottomless pit of cash, cost targets would have to be met etc.

Maybe, but I am not convinced that we need a wholesale abandonment of capitalism.  We just need politicians and the public who are able to stand up to the accountants, the companies and the public sector and demand certain little things that make life more civilised. 

The British public have this unfortunate tendency to kow-tow to their "betters" to the extent that when someone like GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) is criticised for removing buffets or a council is criticised for closing libraries, all they need to do is bring out the "there is no money" excuse and the Uk public are far to ready to believe it (and even defend the view).  Since the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) were built 40 years ago the average inflation adjusted GDP of this country has almost exactly doubled.  We are twice as rich as we were when BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) decided that on-board kitchens, two toilets per coach, guards vans (and indeed guards) were necessary rather than unaffordable luxuries.  So don't give me the "its unaffordable" excuse. 

[TaplowGreen]

The only way to make the "I am not convinced that it has to make a profit" argument into reality is probably to re-nationalise, and even then their wouldn't be a bottomless pit of cash, cost targets would have to be met etc.

Maybe, but I am not convinced that we need a wholesale abandonment of capitalism.  We just need politicians and the public who are able to stand up to the accountants, the companies and the public sector and demand certain little things that make life more civilised. 

The British public have this unfortunate tendency to kow-tow to their "betters" to the extent that when someone like GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) is criticised for removing buffets or a council is criticised for closing libraries, all they need to do is bring out the "there is no money" excuse and the Uk public are far to ready to believe it (and even defend the view).  Since the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) were built 40 years ago the average inflation adjusted GDP of this country has almost exactly doubled.  We are twice as rich as we were when BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) decided that on-board kitchens, two toilets per coach, guards vans (and indeed guards) were necessary rather than unaffordable luxuries.  So don't give me the "its unaffordable" excuse. 

40 years ago did most stations of any reasonable size come equipped with branches of M & S and numerous other catering options? (and please don't cite Casey Jones it still sends a shiver down my spine!)

If the buffets were making a profit, they'd be staying, because it would be in GWR's interest - as it is they sell overpriced, mediocre food to an audience who generally only use it because they have no other choice.....to maintain a loss making part of the business, based largely on nostalgia for a bygone age it would seem, would mean cuts or increased prices elsewhere. Times change, move with them.

To extrapolate this argument into a wholesale abandonment of capitalism did give me a laugh however - maybe you should speak to Mr Corbyn and get him on board? He has recent form on railway issues!!! 

Comparing the provision of buffets to luggage racks is a bit silly - how much does a luggage rack cost to run? Are there salary costs attached to it which necessitate it generating revenue?

[ChrisB]

Video has been removed already.....

While i totally agree re valuables, you cannot get away from the fact on Pad-Pnz services the trolley will not be able to go through!

Errr.....no one has said yet that there won't be enough seats....so the aisles should be clear?

[TaplowGreen]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/29/cabins-will-smell-like-big-macs-readers-on-british-airways-ditching-free-meals?CMP=fb_gu...........not just the railways making major changes to their catering arrangements.

[ChrisB]

Ok, I may have missed this, but when dod the linen tablecloths & napkins disappear from the Pullman service? I reckon I used this service several times last year, but this is the first time I've managed ro co-ordinate my travel this year....

My only gripe though. The starters didn't appeal, so straight to the steak & trimmings. The 'strong' horseradish is anything but...still flavoursome though, and the spuds-au-gratin plus cabbage & carrots were extremely good. Steak really did melt in the mouth.

Only 4 dining gave the many crew not much to do though. I got extra sides rather than them being thrown away, so little room left for the cheese board. I took one of the specials, though the steward tried to explain there was now lemon cream to go with it as catering had forgotten to load it. I understood that there was ordinary cream though, so I went with it snyway.

When the tart arrived, it turned out the steward was misinformed & there was zero cream on board. So while the tart was good, it obviously wasn't baked today & sort of meeded the cream to help it down.

However, talking to the steward afterwards when he came around for payment, he was extremely customer-focused & explained he couldn't knock a couple of quid off....but he'd remove it from the bill completely. This without my asking was superb (I might have asked as we pay nearly top-notch prices) for the Pullman - its £50 for the 3 course meal now, plus drinks.

In return, I added the cost of the dessert to the gratuity line to recognise his service attitude. Hopefully the crew did better out of me as a result.

Can still recommend the dining service & can't wait to try it out on the IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.)

[broadgage]

I don't think that the tablecloths and napkins have been real linen for many years.
They have been paper for years, though good quality that looks like the real thing if you don't look TOO closely.

I now have far less excuse to patronise the Pullman than in years gone by, but in my now limited experience, standards remain high.

Far from cheap, but IMO^▸ ('in my opinion') the quality compares favourably with establishments that charge more.

[IndustryInsider]

Which train were you on, Chris?  Bit worrying that there were only 4 diners!

[JayMac]

Ok, I may have missed this, but when dod the linen tablecloths & napkins disappear from the Pullman service? I reckon I used this service several times last year, but this is the first time I've managed ro co-ordinate my travel this year....

My only gripe though. The starters didn't appeal, so straight to the steak & trimmings. The 'strong' horseradish is anything but...still flavoursome though, and the spuds-au-gratin plus cabbage & carrots were extremely good. Steak really did melt in the mouth.

Only 4 dining gave the many crew not much to do though. I got extra sides rather than them being thrown away, so little room left for the cheese board. I took one of the specials, though the steward tried to explain there was now lemon cream to go with it as catering had forgotten to load it. I understood that there was ordinary cream though, so I went with it snyway.

When the tart arrived, it turned out the steward was misinformed & there was zero cream on board. So while the tart was good, it obviously wasn't baked today & sort of meeded the cream to help it down.

However, talking to the steward afterwards when he came around for payment, he was extremely customer-focused & explained he couldn't knock a couple of quid off....but he'd remove it from the bill completely. This without my asking was superb (I might have asked as we pay nearly top-notch prices) for the Pullman - its £50 for the 3 course meal now, plus drinks.

In return, I added the cost of the dessert to the gratuity line to recognise his service attitude. Hopefully the crew did better out of me as a result.

Can still recommend the dining service & can't wait to try it out on the IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.)

In the words of Basil Fawlty:

"A satisfied customer. We should have him stuffed."

https://youtu.be/8eEDk9Sv5ag?t=3m42s

 

[ChrisB]

1305 to PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains)

[JayMac]

1305 to PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains)

That's the London crewed down lunch Pullman. The most recently (re)introduced Pullman service. They work back from Plymouth with an evening up Pullman at 1803.

[JayMac]

I'm informed by two reliable GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) sources that the 0553 from Plymouth and the 1006 from London Paddington are to lose their Pullman breakfast (up) and Pullman brunch (down) service from the December timetable change.

The preceding is posted with a codicil: GWR social media told me:

Hi Justin. It's due to engineering works - it's not permanent.

Lewis

Now... well placed sources or the company mouthpiece? Who's right? Place your bets...