Great Western Railway: on-board catering, buffets, Travelling Chef, Pullman - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[a-driver]

There has been a communication to staff that no IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)/AT300 will have a buffet car. 
"Buffet provision on IEP/AT300s
All IEP/AT300s will have a full kitchen which will allow provision of a service of hot and cold food and
drink. In line with our customer research we will provide a trolley service in standard class and we will
continue to provide Pullman services on the IEP/AT300 trains.
We have worked with Hitachi to establish the costs and seating changes required to provide a buffet on
these trains. The cost of achieving this on the IEP fleet under construction, retrofitting vehicles in trains
already manufactured and the AT300 trains is substantial. It would also require the removal of 16 seats
from each train, meaning fewer seats for customers during busy times. These works would also delay
the trains’ introduction and thus the extra seats and services for our customers would also be delayed.
As such, the procurement of the IEP/AT300 buffet cars would not be the correct decision for our customers or funders"

In otherwords.  The DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) got involved and told GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) that losing 16 seats to a buffet car means they would not provide the required seating capacity.

[devonexpress]

Forgive me if I am missing something, but I have yet to see a trolley in Standard Class on any GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) HST^▸ (High Speed Train) service to or from the Westcountry - and it would be pointless having one on any service out of PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) after 4pm during the week anyway as it wouldn't get very far!

Standard Class trolley services is available between(sometimes Plymouth) but mostly Exeter St Davids to Paddington, currently only serving snacks and hot beverages(tea/instant coffee) with anything else needing to be ordered at the Buffet Car.

Up services that I know include this are:
From Exeter
08:41 (*from Bristol Temple Meads)
09:57
11:39(Cornish Riviera)

From Paddington
11:06(The Mayflower)
15:06(The Cornishman)

[IndustryInsider]

Thanks for that extra detail, a-driver.

[TRAINMAN57]

Forgive me if I am missing something, but I have yet to see a trolley in Standard Class on any GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) HST^▸ (High Speed Train) service to or from the Westcountry - and it would be pointless having one on any service out of PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) after 4pm during the week anyway as it wouldn't get very far!

Standard Class trolley services is available between(sometimes Plymouth) but mostly Exeter St Davids to Paddington, currently only serving snacks and hot beverages(tea/instant coffee) with anything else needing to be ordered at the Buffet Car.

Up services that I know include this are:
From Exeter
08:41 (*from Bristol Temple Meads)
09:57
11:39(Cornish Riviera)

From Paddington
11:06(The Mayflower)
15:06(The Cornishman)

Just too clarify its the 11.33 ex Pad and its backworkings the 14.53 ex Exeter.

[devonexpress]

Just too clarify its the 11.33 ex Pad and its backworkings the 14.53 ex Exeter.

Clarify what? These are the service I know trolley's are available in standard class, none of them are meant to be return workings.

[TRAINMAN57]

Just too clarify its the 11.33 ex Pad and its backworkings the 14.53 ex Exeter.

Clarify what? These are the service I know trolley's are available in standard class, none of them are meant to be return workings.

11.06 ex Pad doesn`t have a standard trolley on, it is the 11.33 and its return workings.

[broadgage]

There has been a communication to staff that no IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)/AT300 will have a buffet car. 
"Buffet provision on IEP/AT300s
All IEP/AT300s will have a full kitchen which will allow provision of a service of hot and cold food and
drink. In line with our customer research we will provide a trolley service in standard class and we will
continue to provide Pullman services on the IEP/AT300 trains.
We have worked with Hitachi to establish the costs and seating changes required to provide a buffet on
these trains. The cost of achieving this on the IEP fleet under construction, retrofitting vehicles in trains
already manufactured and the AT300 trains is substantial. It would also require the removal of 16 seats
from each train, meaning fewer seats for customers during busy times. These works would also delay
the trains’ introduction and thus the extra seats and services for our customers would also be delayed.
As such, the procurement of the IEP/AT300 buffet cars would not be the correct decision for our customers or funders"

In otherwords.  The DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) got involved and told GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) that losing 16 seats to a buffet car means they would not provide the required seating capacity.

As others have remarked, we have known for some years that the IEPs wont have a buffet, and I cynically forecast this downgrade long before it was admitted.
It is indeed too late to add a buffet to the trains already built, or nearly built, despite the ability to easily retrofit a buffet being "an essential requirement"

I think however that the above quote may be the first official admission that the yet to be built AT300s will also have no buffet. So much for these being higher specification trains, for the longer journeys !
IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) several respected members answered my whinges about the "trolley only" IEPs by pointing out that the "higher specification AT300s will be designed for Penzance and other longer routes and COULD have a buffet car"
I never really expected a buffet, but now it is confirmed that even long distance trains will suffer the same downgrade as the others.

[TaplowGreen]

I'm guessing if you asked people would they prefer a buffet or more seating capacity, most would opt for the latter?

A buffet is handy for those getting on at smaller stations on longer journeys but if you're boarding at Paddington/Reading/Taunton/Exeter/Plymouth/Truro etc there are plenty of options to obtain provisions before getting on board either at the station or nearby - more cheaply and in most cases much better value and healthier!

[IndustryInsider]

I'm guessing if you asked people would they prefer a buffet or more seating capacity, most would opt for the latter?

I'm guessing if you asked people would they prefer a kitchen or more seating capacity that most would opt for the latter.  I'm also guessing if you asked people whether they would prefer a buffet for all, or a kitchen for first class they'd say the buffet for all.

Routes such as Bristol and the north and south Cotswolds really don't need a buffet in this day and age for the reasons you state, but from my experience of the Cornish services the buffet car remains a popular option and it's rare not to see someone stood ordering something - a trip back from Cornwall a few months ago saw an apologetic announcement at Westbury saying they'd sold all the hot food, and that was after a restock had taken place at Plymouth.

A shame in my opinion.  How much of a shame will depend on how the trolley service is provided on the new trains and how often the kitchens are used.

[broadgage]

I'm guessing if you asked people would they prefer a buffet or more seating capacity, most would opt for the latter?

A buffet is handy for those getting on at smaller stations on longer journeys but if you're boarding at Paddington/Reading/Taunton/Exeter/Plymouth/Truro etc there are plenty of options to obtain provisions before getting on board either at the station or nearby - more cheaply and in most cases much better value and healthier!

I think that you are correct, but I would observe-

Firstly, back in the good old days we had trains with enough seats AND a buffet, it was not a choice of enough seats OR a buffet.

And secondly, of course passengers want more seats ! BUT this oft repeated desire for more seats has been interpreted by the railway industry as a desire for fewer toilets, high density seating, fewer tables, reduced catering and less luggage space.
I do not recall many calls from passengers for reduced legroom and fewer facilities.

[LiskeardRich]

I'd rather have a trolley service that trekking to a buffet. If I've got valuables in my baggage I wont be leaving it unattended so wont patron the buffet. If that's at my seat I may well spend some money on board.

[TRAINMAN57]

I'd rather have a trolley service that trekking to a buffet. If I've got valuables in my baggage I wont be leaving it unattended so wont patron the buffet. If that's at my seat I may well spend some money on board.

While i totally agree re valuables, you cannot get away from the fact on Pad-Pnz services the trolley will not be able to go through! It will be a case of a static trolley usually in coach A, its a case of GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) not caring what happens beyond BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)).

[SandTEngineer]

This was published on the WNXX^▸ (Stored Unserviceable, Mainline Locos HQ All Classes) website today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lML1pLI_heQ&sns=fb

Have your hanky ready

[broadgage]

This was published on the WNXX^▸ (Stored Unserviceable, Mainline Locos HQ All Classes) website today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lML1pLI_heQ&sns=fb

Have your hanky ready

Very regrettable.
And despite the facility to retrofit a buffet being "an essential requirement" of the new DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) I don't think that anyone believes that this will happen.
So long distance travellers are stuck with a no buffet, high density interurban DMU for a generation at least. how is that for progress.

[Timmer]

This was published on the WNXX^▸ (Stored Unserviceable, Mainline Locos HQ All Classes) website today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lML1pLI_heQ&sns=fb

Have your hanky ready

Top video clip, very sad but well worth watching.