Great Western Railway: on-board catering, buffets, Travelling Chef, Pullman - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Oxonhutch]

However, I had a dozen the other evening and only eight worked ! 

[wabbit]

The campaign to #savethebuffet needs your help! 

Various links here to help you find what you might need:

https://twitter.com/hashtag/savethebuffet?src=hash

The online petition is here:

https://www.change.org/p/first-great-western-save-the-buffet-cars?recruiter=351002432

And a Facebook site too:

https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/savethebuffet

[ChrisB]

761 signees says it all really

[broadgage]

761 signees says it all really

And how many have signed the "abolish the buffet" petition ?

I suspect most ordinary passengers don't even know that the new shorter trains don't have buffets.

[JayMac]

Or care.

[Rhydgaled]

I suspect most ordinary passengers don't even know that the new shorter trains don't have buffets.

I wonder how many 'ordinary passengers' know that most of the Great Western's new 'Intercity' stock will be shorter trains? If pepole knew about that, and there was a petition, and pepole knew about the petition, I reckon that would certainly attract lots signitures. The issue is the same with buffets though, the general public needs to know about both the threat and the petition, and it isn't easy to make everyone aware. If it were easy, I'd have started an online petition against the short trains some time ago. I've no idea how to make enough pepole aware of the petition to make it effective though, so I didn't start one.

[IndustryInsider]

I wonder how many 'ordinary passengers' know that most of the Great Western's new 'Intercity' stock will be shorter trains?

People would not give two hoots if they can get a seat.  If the shorter trains are used on the many services a day when they would be quite sufficient, and the longer sets and doubled up sets provide quite a few more seats than the existing trains on the busier services, then that will be fine as far as the average passenger is concerned.  I do have concerns about certain routes at certain times of the day, but will wait to see how the trains are allocated to the various diagrams (and allow for a short amount of time to adjust them as that is always needed with a complete timetable recast and new trains) before I assume the worst.

[grahame]

I wonder how many 'ordinary passengers' know that most of the Great Western's new 'Intercity' stock will be shorter trains?

People would not give two hoots if they can get a seat. 

I am reminded of the huge increase in passenger numbers when the Portsmouth to South Wales services were slashed from 6 carriages hauled by a class 33 diesel to 2 carriage units (class 158).

The fact that trains became more frequent and almost clock face did help.

[Rhydgaled]

I wonder how many 'ordinary passengers' know that most of the Great Western's new 'Intercity' stock will be shorter trains?

People would not give two hoots if they can get a seat.

I am reminded of the huge increase in passenger numbers when the Portsmouth to South Wales services were slashed from 6 carriages hauled by a class 33 diesel to 2 carriage units (class 158).

The fact that trains became more frequent and almost clock face did help.

I wonder how the 'sparks effect' compares to a frequency enhancement in terms of increased patronage...

Also, compare to East Coast:
ICEC - Current fleet 44x 9 coach trains
ICGW - Current fleet 54x 8 coach trains, 5x 5 coach trains

ICEC - Planned fleet:

• 43x 9-car
• 22x 5-car

So, all but one of the full-length EC trains is to be replaced by a full-length class 800/801, with 5-car units for extra services. On that basis I would expect to see something like 54x 9-car plus 5x 5-car as a direct replacement for the current GW^» (Great Western - used as an abbreviation for the area / lines under the Great Western franchise, as opposed to FGW which includes "First", the company operating them too. For tickets - about) fleet, with say 15-20 5-car units for extra services; a total of 54x 9-car and perhaps 25x 5-car. Instead the GW fleet will apparently only have 28 full-length trains, barely half as many as the current fleet. You can say what you like about coupling the 5-car units together, but such a 10-car formation is inferior in almost all respects to a single 9-car unit.

In any case, to match the current 54x IC125s would require 26x 10-car formations along with the 28x 9-car units. That would use 52x of the planned 58x 5-car units. That would leave just 6x 5-car units running singly, just enough to replace the class 180s and leaving no units for the planned increased Bristol and Cheltenham service frequencies. There is, quite plainly, going to have to be a number of services run with shorter trains, and thus a lower chance of getting a seat on those services.

[ChrisB]

But *all* current off-peak services (where there is no event to encourage extra pax) have seats available currently....

Frankly, I'll be surprised if services generally still don't have seats available & you're being very pessimistic

[didcotdean]

There was a 12% increase or thereabouts within a year when the 165/166s replaced the various heritage DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) in the Thames Valley.

[ChrisB]

And you think the 365s/387s will be seen in the same light of an improvement?

[TaplowGreen]

761 signees says it all really

And how many have signed the "abolish the buffet" petition ?

I suspect most ordinary passengers don't even know that the new shorter trains don't have buffets.

Hardly anyone cares enough to use it, it's overpriced, it doesn't make money, that's why the buffet will soon be history.....this is not some controversial move about which people are up in arms (......well apart from a few I guess!!!) 

[didcotdean]

And you think the 365s/387s will be seen in the same light of an improvement?

Well there ought to be slightly more room. The 387 even has an armrest between the seats 

The 365 though are of the same vintage really as the existing trains so apart from the lack of 3+2 seating might not look much of an upgrade.

[Adelante_CCT]

In any case, to match the current 54x IC125s would require 26x 10-car formations along with the 28x 9-car units. That would use 52x of the planned 58x 5-car units. That would leave just 6x 5-car units running singly, just enough to replace the class 180s and leaving no units for the planned increased Bristol and Cheltenham service frequencies. There is, quite plainly, going to have to be a number of services run with shorter trains, and thus a lower chance of getting a seat on those services.

I can see what you are saying and an immediate look at those figures would suggest that there could be a lack of seats, however I am of the opinion that we should at least wait and see.
There will be no need to double up as many 5 cars as possible bearing in mind that there are many empty seats on High Speed Trains (HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)))s throughout the day:
Cheltenham services,
High Speed Trains (HST)s to Oxford/Cotswolds
Those running south of Exeter/Plymouth
Those south of Bristol TM^▸ (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context) that head to Weston/Taunton
Probably a majority of services west of Cardiff.

All these sections COULD probably run as 5 cars for 99% of the time.
Also I could be wrong but I expect the 1/2 hourly PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains)-BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) could be 5 cars as there will be no Reading/Swindon/Other intermediate traffic on these services.

I agree they should have stricter rules on pick up only at Reading (evening) and encourage as many as possible to use the 8/12 car 387s.


Edit: VickiS - Clarifying Acronym