Great Western Railway: on-board catering, buffets, Travelling Chef, Pullman - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

All but confirmed there will be an additional four Pullman services starting in the not too distant future.

Barry Doe, writing in this fortnight's RAIL Magazine (756) gives flesh to the bones of the rumours.
 
South Wales gets a reintroduction of an 'up' Breakfast Pullman, departing Swansea at 0559 with a return 'brunch' service leaving Paddington at 0945.

From Plymouth there is an additional 'up' Breakfast Pullman at 0553 with, again, a return 'brunch' Pullman at 1006.

No word yet as to which stations service will be available from. On the up Pullman Breakfast from Swansea I expect the last sitting will be for those boarding at Bristol Parkway. I hope so. It'll give me a chance to try it out. The additional up from Plymouth will likely have service to passengers boarding Plymouth-Taunton incl. I expect the 'down' brunch services will be available from Paddington and Reading, although I suppose it may be possible to serve someone boarding from Swindon heading to Swansea (I can think of one other person who may dine if that's possible...)

These are in addition to the six existing services:

0505 Penzance - Paddington (breakfast available after Plymouth at 0655 and all stations to Taunton incl.)
1000 Penzance - Paddington (three course lunch available after Plymouth at 1201 and all stations to Taunton incl.)
1206 Paddington - Penzance (lunch available from Paddington and Reading)
1256 Plymouth - Paddington (lunch available from Plymouth - Castle Cary incl.)
1803 Paddington - Penzance (three course evening meal available from Paddington and Reading)
1903 Paddington - Plymouth (evening meal from Paddington and Reading)

Good to see these additional services, but it's somewhat of a shame that they come at the expense of the Travelling Chef.

Just waiting now for a confirmed start date from FGW^▸ (First Great Western)...

[thetrout]

1C86 on 03/09/2014 (15:06 London Paddington - Penzance) had no travelling chef again...

From speaking with onboard staff, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are losing ^1,000,000 a year on the travelling chef service alone and by November they will be completely withdrawn. All rather depressing.

There was also suggestions from staff of withdrawing Weekend First or increasing the price, Withdrawing First Class Advance Fares and also withdrawing First Class Off Peak Fares...

For the life of me I cannot see the Off Peak Fares being withdrawn which made me wonder how much was speculation and messroom rumours. The staff members in question however have been working with FGW for longer than I can remember so I am slightly more concerned that I perhaps should be...

I must stress that although the above did come from an FGW Member of Staff... I have no further evidence to prove or disprove these comments and they should be treated as such

[IndustryInsider]

For the life of me I cannot see the Off Peak Fares being withdrawn which made me wonder how much was speculation and messroom rumours.

Messroom rumour I would imagine.  Negativity is always rife in the messrooms!

[Timmer]

I can definitely see Weekend First either being withdrawn or increased in price with a hook line that with WF you will get enhanced on board service with customer hosts at weekends and access to the First class lounge at PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains).

[TaplowGreen]

1C86 on 03/09/2014 (15:06 London Paddington - Penzance) had no travelling chef again...

From speaking with onboard staff, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are losing ^1,000,000 a year on the travelling chef service alone and by November they will be completely withdrawn. All rather depressing.

There was also suggestions from staff of withdrawing Weekend First or increasing the price, Withdrawing First Class Advance Fares and also withdrawing First Class Off Peak Fares...

I must stress that although the above did come from an FGW Member of Staff... I have no further evidence to prove or disprove these comments and they should be treated as such

Sounds like a sound commercial decision on that basis, no sensible business would continue to soak up that sort of loss......fully agree with withdrawing Weekend First as First class capacity has been slashed otherewise people with full fare tickets are going to miss out on a seat when someone nips in with a ^20 supplement.....weekend first was designed to use up accomodation in times of low demand, these times are now disappearing......less relaxed about First Advance being withdrawn (notwithstanding that these are rumours albeit from well informed people).........think all this demonstrates how cutting 1st class was hasty,poorly thought through and the implications not considered...the premium service is getting less so day by day it seems!

[SDS]

I have also heard said rumours of a "rethink about WF". I dunno if WF is an ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) requirement as it seems all the IC^▸ (Inter City) operators have it EC/GW^▸ (Great Western)/WC^▸ (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority))/.

Also think a supplement should be introduced to advance holders, EC do it for their KGX lounge. Virgin restrict the use of the lounge time time wise.

How is it fair that someone on a say ^20 advance should get more benefits then someone on a FOR?

[didcotdean]

Well last year ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) put out press release about the increased use of First Class, highlighting the uses of advances, weekend first and Railcards, and it being driven also through enhanced lounges and catering.

However, that was last year's spin; this year's appears to be different.

[TaplowGreen]

I have also heard said rumours of a "rethink about WF". I dunno if WF is an ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) requirement as it seems all the IC^▸ (Inter City) operators have it EC/GW^▸ (Great Western)/WC^▸ (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority))/.

Also think a supplement should be introduced to advance holders, EC do it for their KGX lounge. Virgin restrict the use of the lounge time time wise.

How is it fair that someone on a say ^20 advance should get more benefits then someone on a FOR?

Probably tricky unless it's renamed the "First Class open return lounge"?  I guess in this context a 1st class ticket is a 1st class ticket? Not sure how much "fairness" comes into it but I guess that could work both ways..........unless you make it a "Business" type lounge on the basis that most people with FOR will be travelling on expenses/Business? ......that said , I'm not aware of any restrictions of this type in airport lounges.....Business class is Business class regardless for that purpose.

[broadgage]

Pity about the travelling chef, but the extra Pullmans are good news to me at least.
We are nearly back to the good old days when seven services from London to the west had restaurants, with a similar number eastbound.
Unfortunately I have now moved to the West country and wont be enjoying the Pullman as often as in the past.

As regards the various forms of discounted first class travel, I doubt that these will vanish, but I would expect shallower discounts for advance purchases, smaller numbers of discounted tickets, and a greater supplement for weekend first.

[IndustryInsider]

I agree with broadgage and would expect the number of cheap advance first class fares to reduce, but still expect them to be available in a reasonable number on many off-peak services that would otherwise have loads of empty first class seats if the only tickets available were FOS or FOR.  In the case of the mini-buffet sets there will be (as I understand it) around 72 first class seats instead of 95 so it really isn't that dramatic a drop on many of the trains anyway. 

Standard class seating on those trains rises from 474 to 513, only 13 short of the 9-Car IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) proposed layouts - I wonder if we may see them eventually built with less first class seating than the 101 seats that featured in those proposed layouts?

[JayMac]

How is it fair that someone on a say ^20 advance should get more benefits then someone on a FOR?

Life isn't fair. There are many examples where two people pay different prices for the same product. Or where you pay the same price for nominally the same product but get different service.

Someone with a railcard reduced First Class ticket gets the same benefits as those without. They've paid less, should they get a reduced service? Where do you draw the line. One tea for the 1st AP below ^40, tea and biscuits for the 1st AP above ^40. Tea, biscuits and lounge access for the 1st Off Peak holder. All of the above only for those on 1st Anytime tickets?

If you have a 1st Class ticket, you should get the 1st Class service. On the train at least.

[TaplowGreen]

How is it fair that someone on a say ^20 advance should get more benefits then someone on a FOR?

Life isn't fair. There are many examples where two people pay different prices for the same product. Or where you pay the same price for nominally the same product but get different service.

Someone with a railcard reduced First Class ticket gets the same benefits as those without. They've paid less, should they get a reduced service? Where do you draw the line. One tea for the 1st AP below ^40, tea and biscuits for the 1st AP above ^40. Tea, biscuits and lounge access for the 1st Off Peak holder. All of the above only for those on 1st Anytime tickets?

If you have a 1st Class ticket, you should get the 1st Class service. On the train at least.

I agree, but would draw the line at Weekend First.....let's say for example I've got a First class open return which I've bought as I need maximum flexibility and have decided to travel from Plymouth to Paddington on a Sunday afternoon........train starts at Penzance and by the time it's gets to Plym the one and a little bit carriage of 1st class is full of people who have paid a (relatively) small supplement to upgrade their Standard class tickets......would the TM^‡(resolve) turf one of them out? No chance..... Clearly this is an anomaly - so in essence if you've bought a 1st class ticket at any price, you should get the service, but you shouldn't be able to "upgrade" a standard class ticket and enjoy the enhanced facilities at the expense of someone who has a "pukka" 1st class ticket.

[ChrisB]

Those with an open return will soon learn to reserve a seat....

(I know, they shouldn't strictly have to)

[TaplowGreen]

Those with an open return will soon learn to reserve a seat....

(I know, they shouldn't strictly have to)

............if the total flexibility with which this ticket is sold at an enormous price is going to be reduced, then so must be the cost - you can't have it both ways.

[broadgage]

Those with an open return will soon learn to reserve a seat....

(I know, they shouldn't strictly have to)

IME^▸ (in my experience) the main reason for purchasing an open return is uncertainty as to the time at which one will return. If the time of return is known, then in most cases one might as well book a discounted ticket, which unlike a full price one guarantees a seat.