Great Western Railway: on-board catering, buffets, Travelling Chef, Pullman - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

I don't see how they could easily schedule those High Speed Trains (HST^▸ (High Speed Train))s on particular services *every* day....possibly a wish, rather than a policy?'

Edit: VickiS - Clarifying Acronym

[Umberleigh]

A solution would be two bays of First Class (FC^‡(resolve)) seats in the standard coach immediately adjacent to the buffet/restaurant car. That way you get lots of extra standard seats, but retain sufficient First Class (FC) capacity to cater for diners.

Obviously a hand operated sliding door would be required, preferably with tinted glass so that the MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) and civil servants in standard won't moan about First Class (FC) passengers dining in style...

Edit : VickiS - Clarifying Acronym

[ChrisB]

for an extra 8 diners?.....

[Umberleigh]

for an extra 8 diners?.....

... On each side = 16 seats

[a-driver]

I would guess if the Pullman crews thought that the service was underthreat in any shape or form they would have sent feedback to the highest level possible because at the end if the day, worst case scenario, it's their jobs at stake.

Me, I would have just reversed the formation of the train.  With First Class (FC^‡(resolve)) positioned country end the majority of London commuters wouldn't walk past First Class (FC) and thus probably wouldn't realise how many carriages of First Class (FC) there were and complain!

Edit: VickiS - Clarifying Acronym

[broadgage]

for an extra 8 diners?.....

... On each side = 16 seats

First class seating is 2+1, therefore 2 bays of seating would be 12 seats. That would be worth having but I believe that the idea is a non starter for other reasons.
Firstly keeping steerage customers out of first class is already a struggle, if they had to pass through this area to access the buffet, it would in effect become the new standing area for the Reading commuters.
I doubt that meal service would be safe if the staff had to carry everything past the buffet queue, including those pretending to queue but actualy intending to be first out at Reading.
The expense and disruption of making the change seems a bit pointless as it would produce a somewhat similar result to simply keeping 2 coaches of first class.

[bobm]

I don't see how they could easily schedule those HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) on particular services *every* day....possibly a wish, rather than a policy?

I think the idea was based on the fact you need to ensure the right kitchen is diagrammed for the six services so at the same time you ensure the coaches are correct.  How far up the managerial chain the idea has got I don't know. 

It would also offer some flexibility on trains where it is known there will be a high proportion of first class customers.  I was on the 15:50 from Penzance yesterday and it had two first class coaches.  The majority of first class seats were reserved and I counted only four empty seats - and that was before the first of the Glastonbury homegoers got on at Westbury.....

[Umberleigh]

Perhaps the root cause of this debate is the fact that standing is allowed on trains, the only form of long distance travel to allow so.

Eliminate overcapacity and give everyone a seat reservation. Simple, safe and would allow the train company to upgrade standard class passengers to fill FC^‡(resolve) spare capacity when available.

Nobody enjoys standing, and just because it's how things have always been done is no reason to continue doing so.

[chrisr_75]

Perhaps the root cause of this debate is the fact that standing is allowed on trains, the only form of long distance travel to allow so.

Eliminate overcapacity and give everyone a seat reservation. Simple, safe and would allow the train company to upgrade standard class passengers to fill FC^‡(resolve) spare capacity when available.

Nobody enjoys standing, and just because it's how things have always been done is no reason to continue doing so.

I seem to recall Virgin proposed reservation only trains some time ago only to be met with outcry...

[RichardB]

No-one is going to abolish the walk-up railway, even if it means standing on long distance trains.

[SDS]

Don't long distance trains in Europe make it compulsory to have seat reservations? I'm thinking ICE or was that because I was on FIP Coupons?

[thetrout]

Don't long distance trains in Europe make it compulsory to have seat reservations? I'm thinking ICE or was that because I was on FIP Coupons?

Whenever I travelled in Spain on long distance Alvia or Altaris services. Reservations were compulsory. Once the train was full. No more bookings were taken.

So buying a ticket on the day although can be cheaper results in the risk of not being able to board the train you want or any train that day infact

I paid 50Euros for a Preferente Single from Madrid - Murcia. I was VERY lucky because nearly all First Class seats where taken before leaving Madrid Charmartin and when called at Atocha there were 2 seats left that became occupied at Almanza from memory.

But remember that our fellow EU^» (European Union - about) members have a completely different lifestyle. Long distance travel daily isn't something I think happens from my very casual observations.

But to answer you question. InterCity travel in Spain requires compulsory reservations and you MUST sit in the seat issued. (I got booked a Window seat once. I sat in the Cafeteria (free for all seating) for most of the journey instead because sitting in the Aisle seat was not allowed ).

However the local trains such as Alicante - Murcia - Lorca or Madrid Local Services don't require seat reservations. Allow 'standing' travel and do not feature First Class Seating. You do get a toilet but that is pretty much the only 'comfort'.

Just to complicate things, bear in mind that the Alicante - Lorca route does have trains which are InterCity services. Require compulsory reservations. Have a Buffet Car/Cafeteria and First Class seating. Only 3 a day from memory but those three trains have a different ticket system and require a reservation even if going just to the next stop. Which may be 3 minutes or 3 hours up the line!!

Oh and your local trains ticket isn't valid... You require a booked in advance or bought before travel ticket

[grahame]

No-one is going to abolish the walk-up railway, even if it means standing on long distance trains.

The furthest I can recall them going along this road rail in the past was expresses out of King's Cross which were in some cases all seats reservable / passengers carried limited to capacity of trains. Take a look at note C.

[devon_metro]

Don't long distance trains in Europe make it compulsory to have seat reservations? I'm thinking ICE or was that because I was on FIP Coupons?

Whenever I travelled in Spain on long distance Alvia or Altaris services. Reservations were compulsory. Once the train was full. No more bookings were taken.

So buying a ticket on the day although can be cheaper results in the risk of not being able to board the train you want or any train that day infact

I paid 50Euros for a Preferente Single from Madrid - Murcia. I was VERY lucky because nearly all First Class seats where taken before leaving Madrid Charmartin and when called at Atocha there were 2 seats left that became occupied at Almanza from memory.

But remember that our fellow EU^» (European Union - about) members have a completely different lifestyle. Long distance travel daily isn't something I think happens from my very casual observations.

But to answer you question. InterCity travel in Spain requires compulsory reservations and you MUST sit in the seat issued. (I got booked a Window seat once. I sat in the Cafeteria (free for all seating) for most of the journey instead because sitting in the Aisle seat was not allowed ).

However the local trains such as Alicante - Murcia - Lorca or Madrid Local Services don't require seat reservations. Allow 'standing' travel and do not feature First Class Seating. You do get a toilet but that is pretty much the only 'comfort'.

Just to complicate things, bear in mind that the Alicante - Lorca route does have trains which are InterCity services. Require compulsory reservations. Have a Buffet Car/Cafeteria and First Class seating. Only 3 a day from memory but those three trains have a different ticket system and require a reservation even if going just to the next stop. Which may be 3 minutes or 3 hours up the line!!

Oh and your local trains ticket isn't valid... You require a booked in advance or bought before travel ticket

The AVE network has airport style security checks too. Plus you wait for your platform in the waiting area before passing the 'gate' where your pre-booked ticket is scanned. I don't know how strict the seat reservations are as they didn't seem to do ticket checks on board when I travelled Atocha - Valencia.

[trainer]

Don't long distance trains in Europe make it compulsory to have seat reservations? I'm thinking ICE or was that because I was on FIP Coupons?

I have, sadly, been on German ICE trains (with a reservation) packed to the gunnels (or at least the train equivalent) with students going home for the weekend with their baggage.  No access to the buffet or toilet was practical for much of the journey.  The TGV^▸ (Train a Grande Vitesse)/Thalys services mostly seem to have compulsory reservation and although they have quite insufficient baggage storage at least it's not people lying in the aisles and vestibules preventing the compartment doors closing and preventing the aircon working efficiently.  As has been noted before: railway paradise does not starts at Calais.