Great Western Railway: on-board catering, buffets, Travelling Chef, Pullman - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[adc82140]

That's how it used to be. And that's why the overcrowding on the Reading-Paddington corridor was so hideous during the peaks.

[Btline]

That's how it used to be. And that's why the overcrowding on the Reading-Paddington corridor was so hideous during the peaks.

How many more seats in a LC^▸ (Level Crossing) set than a HC set? Can't be that much difference.

But the point I was clearly making is: make all the sets the same. Even if they are all HC sets.

[adc82140]

That's why they should have kept a standard fleet. 8 coaches, full buffet and kitchen. Low density seating.

But the point I was clearly making is: make all the sets the same. Even if they are all HC sets.

Sorry, don't really see that- it's clear to me that you were suggesting low density seating. 

[TerminalJunkie]

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean ^ neither more nor less.'

[Btline]

Yes, I suggested LD seating - as I think 4 tables per coach is better for longer distance families.
But the clear message of the post was to get 1 standard fleet. i.e. no mini buffets or 2+7.

[IndustryInsider]

How many more seats in a LC^▸ (Level Crossing) set than a HC set? Can't be that much difference.

On a LC 2+8 with buffet, compared with a HC 2+8 with mini-buffet?  Over 100 more standard class seats I should imagine.

[Southern Stag]

That's how it used to be. And that's why the overcrowding on the Reading-Paddington corridor was so hideous during the peaks.

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have always have lots of different types of buffets though. There are four different types of buffet vehicles in the FGW fleet excluding the micro-buffets. The type favoured for Pullman services, 407xx vehicles should be found, if they are in the correct formation, in the 16 Low Density HST^▸ (High Speed Train) sets. They are diagrammed on mainly the London-Penzance route where all trains are meant to be formed of them, with the rest of the workings across a number of different services. That means there is plenty of opportunity for the wrong type of buffet to turn up on the diagram. There are then 19 High Density 2+8 sets which have three different types of buffet vehicle in them, 9 408xx vehicles which have the same number of seats as 407xx vehicles, and I believe a full length kitchen still, so suitable but not preferred for a Pullman service, there are also 402xx and 409xx vehicles, 5 or each, they have shorter kitchens and an extra six FC^‡(resolve) seats, so aren't suitable for Pullman services and aren't ideal for Travelling Chef services either. All three of those kitchen types are diagrammed as a common fleet, so some HD sets are suitable for Pullman services and others aren't. The buffet carriages replaced by the micro-buffets were mainly 407xx vehicles with full kitchens, but of course in 2+8 HD sets, so they were suitable for Pullman services.

[Btline]

What a mess (above post)

And I'm surprised that 2 fewer tables per coach for 5 coaches equates to 100 seats even when you consider the micro buffets.

How many more seats if you compare a normal HC to LC^▸ (Level Crossing) set (with standard buffet)?

[dog box]

The difference between a high and low density set is minimal, its in the 15 to 20 region

[broadgage]

The difference between a high and low density set is minimal, its in the 15 to 20 region

But it was advertised as "thousands of extra seats" which it probably is over say a month.
Most ordinary passengers would think that "thousands of extra seats" means longer or additional trains, rather than just squeezing a few more seats into each coach.

[Btline]

Right, in that case I stand by my original post. All sets should be LC^▸ (Level Crossing). Why should all the InterCity passengers suffer just so a handful more Reading commuters don't have to stand for 25 minutes? There should be more trains after electrification/Xrail and IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) so that most peak InterCities can run pick up only/set down only at Reading.

[IndustryInsider]

The difference between a high and low density set is minimal, its in the 15 to 20 region

But it was advertised as "thousands of extra seats" which it probably is over say a month.
Most ordinary passengers would think that "thousands of extra seats" means longer or additional trains, rather than just squeezing a few more seats into each coach.

It's thousands of extra seats a day.  I think you're both forgetting that most of the the high density will be formed with 8 carriages, 6 of which will be standard class (incl. Micro Buffet) and two first class, and low density sets will be mostly formed of 8 carriages with 5 standard class carriages, two first class, and a buffet first.  As 'dogbox' says the 15-20 seats extra is over the 5 carriages but then there's the extra additional standard class carriage with its 85 or so seats.  That makes over a hundred.  Though you lose a handful of first class seats.

[dog box]

slight mis understanding.....the 15 to 20 extra seats is as it stands now before the introduction of the converted buffets

[bobm]

It's possible that G&T and V&T are bigger sellers than Whisky and Brandy so FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have gone for a compromise on what they stock.

Alternatively they may just be running down existing stock of the pre-mixed whisky cans. Don't know what, if anything, replaced the Brandy miniatures. I don't care much for Whisky or Brandy so I'm a happy bunny!

Looks like you were right about running down the stocks. On the 10:00 ex-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) and they have miniatures of Bells whisky and cans of Canada Dry.

Question is - is 11:30 too early to try them!

[broadgage]

It's possible that G&T and V&T are bigger sellers than Whisky and Brandy so FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have gone for a compromise on what they stock.

Alternatively they may just be running down existing stock of the pre-mixed whisky cans. Don't know what, if anything, replaced the Brandy miniatures. I don't care much for Whisky or Brandy so I'm a happy bunny!

Looks like you were right about running down the stocks. On the 10:00 ex-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) and they have miniatures of Bells whisky and cans of Canada Dry.

Question is - is 11:30 too early to try them!

A little early under normal circumstances perhaps, but one really ought to show support for the stocking of miniatures by buying a few !
I do my best with the Plymouth gin !