Great Western Railway: on-board catering, buffets, Travelling Chef, Pullman - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Btline]

I can not agree that the restaurant "takes up seats" there are still the same number of seats on the train, and the same number of passengers, whether the restuarant be open or not.

Exactly, so it does take up seats. As standard class passengers are sitting in the restaurant but also have reservations in standard.

[broadgage]

I can not agree that the restaurant "takes up seats" there are still the same number of seats on the train, and the same number of passengers, whether the restuarant be open or not.

Exactly, so it does take up seats. As standard class passengers are sitting in the restaurant but also have reservations in standard.

If someone has a standard class ticket and manages to sit in the restaurant, then on a busy service it would seem reasonable for another passenger to occupy the standard class seat whilst the first customer dines.
When they have completed their meal, conflict might arise in theory if they seek to return to their seat, but in practice it should not be a problem.
It is likely that the dining customer will remain in the restaurant until at least Taunton or Exeter. After the Exeter stop there are almost allways seats for all.
Indeed there is a good chance that either the dining customer, or the other passenger sitting in "their" standard class seat will allight at Taunton Or Exeter.

AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know), anyone may use a reserved seat, provided that they willingly give it up when the customer with the reservation requires it.
If someone boarding at Paddington finds a reserved seat that is not taken, I believe that they may use it.

[Btline]

I would put money on all restaurants being axed at the beginning of the new franchise, I don't see how the west country will buck the trend shown by East Coast.
It will be replaced wither by an enhanced travelling chef, or a 1st class at seat service aka Virgin.
Or nothing at all!

[Super Guard]

I would put money on all restaurants being axed at the beginning of the new franchise, I don't see how the west country will buck the trend shown by East Coast.
It will be replaced wither by an enhanced travelling chef, or a 1st class at seat service aka Virgin.
Or nothing at all!

 

So if the 1803/1903 make profit and subsidise any loss made by the up-trains, why would they do that and what has this got to do with East Coast??!

They do seem overstaffed at times, but then you also have the additional first class hosts who help out the restaurant staff too.  Perhaps they could be utilised better though.

[Btline]

I'm frankly amazed they make a profit. Of course, offering a complimentary at 1st class seat service with slightly reduced 1st fares would probably be more profitable as more people would go 1st, freeing up seats in 2nd.

If restaurants were generally profitable, they would still be in existence across the network. There is a reason they have been axed.

[vacman]

I'm frankly amazed they make a profit. Of course, offering a complimentary at 1st class seat service with slightly reduced 1st fares would probably be more profitable as more people would go 1st, freeing up seats in 2nd.

If restaurants were generally profitable, they would still be in existence across the network. There is a reason they have been axed.

it's a good job BTline isn't running the economy or this country would be seriously in the sh1t! why the hell would they REDUCE first class fares and then introduce FREE meals? so basically what you are saying is that trains should have an extra 5 or 6 staff to give out free food to people who are paying less than they do now?  The restaurants make a nice little profit on the down workings with the up workings about breaking even, as you will see on the 18:03 and 19:03 all of coach F is laid up and the first 4 tables in G and is full before the train leaves London so there is no need to be giving out free meals. the only way to increase the number of seats in STD is to do away with all cheap first class fares and just have 1 first class coach, the increased first class fares could then subsidise free meals for first class.

[bobm]

I travelled on the 12:55 ex Plymouth on Monday and there were five of us dining before Exeter with others joining later.  Busiest I have seen it on a Monday for a while.

[Btline]

I'm frankly amazed they make a profit. Of course, offering a complimentary at 1st class seat service with slightly reduced 1st fares would probably be more profitable as more people would go 1st, freeing up seats in 2nd.

If restaurants were generally profitable, they would still be in existence across the network. There is a reason they have been axed.

it's a good job BTline isn't running the economy or this country would be seriously in the sh1t! why the hell would they REDUCE first class fares and then introduce FREE meals? so basically what you are saying is that trains should have an extra 5 or 6 staff to give out free food to people who are paying less than they do now?  The restaurants make a nice little profit on the down workings with the up workings about breaking even, as you will see on the 18:03 and 19:03 all of coach F is laid up and the first 4 tables in G and is full before the train leaves London so there is no need to be giving out free meals. the only way to increase the number of seats in STD is to do away with all cheap first class fares and just have 1 first class coach, the increased first class fares could then subsidise free meals for first class.

Well it works for East Coast and Virgin! I believe profits and passenger numbers are up on EC since they introduced lower 1st advance fares and added a complementary offer. It then means standard seats get freed up for more commuters, reducing overcrowding.

[SapperPsmith]

Sorry Btline - East Coast have said that passenger volumes in First are up but they have been careful not to discuss revenue.  I suspect that their yeild is down and they are not covering thier increased costs with the inclusive offer in First.  A colleague has bought a First Class ticket from Newcastle to Kings Cross for ^41 - amazing value but with the free food included not so good for the taxpayer (who own East Coast).

[Btline]

VT^▸ (Virgin Trains - former franchises) have run a similar thing to EC for years. It must be worthwhile.

[JayMac]

VT^▸ (Virgin Trains - former franchises) have run a similar thing to EC for years. It must be worthwhile.

And do Virgin have a constant 11% discount on their 1st Advance tickets when purchased from them? Or seemingly endless promotions enticing people to try the 1st Class service?

East Coast may have increased bums on seats in 1st Class but so many of those extra buttocks have come through the regular promotions. There'll probably be another one along soon. If there is then.... ^25 1st Class to Edinburgh. Yes please! 

[vacman]

Well it works for East Coast and Virgin! I believe profits and passenger numbers are up on EC since they introduced lower 1st advance fares and added a complementary offer. It then means standard seats get freed up for more commuters, reducing overcrowding.

On Virgin you get a minute breakfast that even a worm could eat 2 of, first class on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is near full on most peak services anyway so no need for extra bums on seats, the best thing with paying for the food you get is that you can expect it to be good quality and you complain if its not, none of this "Well its free what you moaning about" aka East Coast.

[SapperPsmith]

The history of the VT^▸ (Virgin Trains - former franchises) free offer is often forgotton.

Pre Pendelino and during WCRM the service had almost collapsed and First Class customers were in open revolt and many were driving to the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) to use GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways).  The staff were also not properly managed and there was no Electronic Point of Sale (EPOS^▸ (Electronic Point of Sale)) to reduce fraud.  As a way of compensating First Class customers and reducing the complexity of the offer (and removing the need to collect cash) VT introduced the "free offer" to justify the high fares.  It will be illuminating to see if any of those competing for the InterCity West Coast (ICWC^▸ (InterCity West Coast)) franchise have proposed to continue with the free offer.

Edit: VickiS - Clarifying Acronym

[bobm]

Interesting couple of days on the trains.

On Thursday I overheard a conversation between an off duty FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff member and an obvious enthusiast about train planning.  It seems there are five variants of HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) - obviously the high and low density varieties as well as different buffet/kitchen configurations.  When it comes to disruption is it not only a case of finding a train and crew in the right place which is obvious but factors I hadn't thought of before including; ensuring the set has enough fuel for the job in hand (and possibly the next one if it is to be out-stabled overnight), will end up in the correct place if it is due an exam, if it has the right buffet for Travelling Chef/Pullman if possible and what the options are for filling the role it was originally due to perform.  To cap it all those decisions then have to made quickly and put into place.  Certainly made me think.

Then on Friday I travelled on the 12:55 ex-Plymouth for the second time this week.  17 meals were served in two sittings, so much so that extra supplies had to be drafted in for the return trip at 19:03.  The only downside was the range in the kitchen (or is that a galley) wasn't working properly so the choices were a bit limited but none the less pleasing to see so many people of all ages taking a meal.

[Btline]

On Thursday I overheard a conversation between an off duty FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff member and an obvious enthusiast about train planning.  It seems there are five variants of HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) - obviously the high and low density varieties as well as different buffet/kitchen configurations.  When it comes to disruption is it not only a case of finding a train and crew in the right place which is obvious but factors I hadn't thought of before including; ensuring the set has enough fuel for the job in hand (and possibly the next one if it is to be out-stabled overnight), will end up in the correct place if it is due an exam, if it has the right buffet for Travelling Chef/Pullman if possible and what the options are for filling the role it was originally due to perform.  To cap it all those decisions then have to made quickly and put into place.  Certainly made me think.

That's why they should have kept a standard fleet. 8 coaches, full buffet and kitchen. Low density seating.