Great Western Railway: on-board catering, buffets, Travelling Chef, Pullman - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

First the demise of Plymouth Gin.  Now the end of all miniatures it seems.  Travelled on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) three trains yesterday and on all three the range of spirits has been replaced with three ready mixed canned drinks.  Gin and Slimline tonic, Whisky & Cola and Vodka and Cola.  I'm not a fan of slimline tonic and I prefer dry ginger with my whisky so not great news as far as I am concerned.  Although the cans are chilled it seem there was no ice either.  A big step back in my opinion.

Very pleased to note that the miniature Gordon's and cans of Schweppes tonic appear to be back in buffets across the fleet. Had a most agreeable G&T with ice and lemon on the 2045 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) last evening. Pricey though at ^4.80. 

I chatted with the Customer Host who said that sales of the pre-mixed Gin and Slimline cans were disappointing so FGW have reverted to miniatures with choice of normal or Slimline tonic mixers. One would like to think that the complaints I (and possibly others) made were noted at FGW Towers. In the great scheme of things 'tis but a minor concern to moan about, but it's nice to think FGW listened to feedback and acted on it. 

[broadgage]

Glad to see miniatures of gin, and cans of tonic back, perhaps other spirits and mixers might return ?

I dont consider the price to be excessive, remembering that the miniature bottle is a double measure compared to that served in most pubs.
Miniature bottle=50ml  standard pub measure=25ml.

[bobm]

Very pleased to note that the miniature Gordon's and cans of Schweppes tonic appear to be back in buffets across the fleet. Had a most agreeable Gin & Tonic (G&T) with ice and lemon on the 2045 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) last evening. Pricey though at ^4.80. 

Travelled from Swindon to Reading on the St David as the ponderous annoucements on Platform 3 informed me (the 11:28 ex-Swansea) and as well as the Gin & Tonic (G&T) (which is my tipple - well one of them) they also had the mini bottles of vodka back too. Like broadgage I would welcome the whisky and brandy to return as well.

Edit: VickiS - Clarifying Acronym

[JayMac]

It's possible that Gin & Tonic (G&T) and Vodka & Tonic (V&T) are bigger sellers than Whisky and Brandy so FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have gone for a compromise on what they stock.

Alternatively they may just be running down existing stock of the pre-mixed whisky cans. Don't know what, if anything, replaced the Brandy miniatures. I don't care much for Whisky or Brandy so I'm a happy bunny!

Edit: VickiS - Clarifying Acronym

[bobm]

At the end of a day I quite fancy a whiskey or a brandy in a coffee - so picked up a hip flask on a well know auction internet site.  FGW^▸ (First Great Western) get the money for the coffee, I provide the "kick". 

[JayMac]

At the end of a day I quite fancy a whiskey....

<pedant alert> I don't think FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have ever served Irish or American versions of the 'water of life'. 

[bobm]

Jack Daniels?

[JayMac]

Jack Daniels?

They've served JD in the past? I never knew that.

Used to drink the odd Confederate tipple. When I did I preferred Jim Beam or Southern Comfort.  Strictly colourless spirits these days.

[bobm]

See http://web.archive.org/web/20060813094809/http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=120

From 2006 - but was available for a fair while after.  (Having just spent 5 mins tidying this list up to remove endless blank lines I realised this is the Pullman offering but most were available in the buffet car on non pullman services.)

Soft drinks - choose from
Blackcurrant Ribena 288ml 80p
Coca Cola/Diet Coke 500ml ^1.30
Elderflower Presse ^1.55
Tango 500ml ^1.30
Fruit Juices    ^1.40
Lilt 500ml ^1.30
Mineral Water Sparkling/Still 500 ml  ^1.25
Red Bull ^2.00

Hot Drinks - choose from
Cafe Bonito, ground coffee  ^1.65
Aero Hot Chocolate ^1.55
Nescafe Gold Blend ^1.45
Nescafe Gold Blend Decafe ^1.45
Nescafe Cappuccino ^1.55
Typhoo tea ^1.45
Flavoured Tea ^1.45

Beers - choose from
Arkles 3B ^2.50
Bass Ale (500ml) ^2.50
Carlsberg (500ml) ^2.50
Guinness (440ml) ^2.60
Stella Artois (440ml) ^2.60
Strongbow Cider (440ml)  ^2.50
Tetley (440ml)  ^2.60

Spirits - choose from
Bacardi (5cl) ^3.25
Bell's Extra Special Scotch Whisky (5cl) ^3.25
Cockburn's Special Reserve Port (5cl) ^2.85
Gordon's/Plymouth Gin ^3.25
Jack Daniel's (5cl)  ^3.45
Martell Medallion VSOP Cognac (3cl)  ^3.45
Penderyn Welsh Whiskey (5cl)  ^3.45
Smirnoff Vodka (5cl)  ^3.25
Smirnoff Ice (300ml) ^2.95

Mixers 80p

House Wines - choose from
2003 Cabernet Sauvignon,Louis Eschenauer (18.75cl) ^3.10
2003 Cabernet Sauvignon,Louis Eschenauer (75cl) ^11.95
2003 Colombard/Chardonnay,Louis Eschenauer (18.75cl) ^3.10
2003 Colombard/Chardonnay,Louis Eschenauer (75cl) ^11.95
Overland, Australian Dry White (25cl) ^4.10
Overland, Australian Dry White (75cl) ^12.20
Overland, Australian Red (25cl) ^4.10
Overland, Australian Red (75cl) ^12.20

Red Wines* - Choose from
ARX Negro (Tempranillo & Merlot),Navarra, Spain (35cl) ^7.00
Ch^teau Tour de Mirambeau BordeauxSup^rieur (35cl) ^10.00
Ch^teau Tour de Mirambeau BordeauxSup^rieur (75cl) ^20.00
Regenoak, Shiraz/Cabernet 2004,South East Australia (35cl) ^8.00
Regenoak, Shiraz/Cabernet 2004,South East Australia (75cl) ^17.00
Riddoch, Cabernet Shiraz 1999 (75cl)  ^19.90

White Wines* - choose from
Coppers Bay Sauvignon Blanc 2004,Marlborough, New Zealand (35cl) ^11.00
M^con Blanc Villages St. Armand 2004,Labour^ Roi (35cl) ^12.00
M^con Blanc Villages St. Armand 2004,Labour^ Roi (75cl) ^21.00
Viognier, Domaine Peiri^re, 2004 (35cl)  ^9.00
Viognier, Domaine Peiri^re, 2004 (75cl) ^16.00

Champagne - choose from
Charles Lafitte Brut ^EO^, T^te de Cuv^e (37cl) ^17.50
Charles Lafitte Brut ^EO^, T^te de Cuv^e (75cl) ^32.00

[JayMac]

Wow!

What choice.

I remember from correspondence with a former FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Customer Services Director (James Burt) in 2009, him telling me that FGW buffets rarely made a profit. Subtext was they are provided as an added value service with profit and loss absorbed by other aspects of the business.

Understandable perhaps that there has been some reduction in the choice of buffet stock in recent years in an effort to make the buffets pay.

Of note though is the recent increase in Travelling Chef services. By my reckoning, looking at the network timetable, there are now four additional weekday Travelling Chef services since the May 2012 timetable changes.

And there are strong rumours of an increase in Pullman restaurant services from September. Barry Doe obliquely alludes to this in his most recent column in RAIL magazine (RAIL 698). Rumours are* there may be a return of two 'up' Pullman breakfast trains, one from South Wales and one from Devon/Cornwall with corresponding 'down' lunch Pullmans from Paddington. After the fleet settles down following the introduction of the MK^▸ (Milton Keynes) 3 buffets converted to MK 3 Standards, FGW will have greater flexibilty in the fleet to utilise the existing TRFB^▸ (Trailer Restaurant First Buffet (Mark 3 coach type)) (Trailer Restaurant First Buffet) with full kitchens** on services where the kitchen can be used in revenue earning service.

I'm slightly cynical of these changes, coming as they do toward the end of the franchise. Could just be FGW window dressing to advertise what they offer by way of added value.


*I stress - rumour. Nothing official announced.

** I believe, although I'm open to correction, that all FGW MK3 buffets are now classified as TRFB regardless of whether they have full kitchens or not. In the past those with kitchens would've been classified as TRFK (Trailer Restaurant First Kitchen). The distinction between kitchen and non-kitchen is now only identifiable by the coach's TOPS^▸ (Total Operations Processing System) code.

[Btline]

I'd be surprised at an expansion of restaurants, as they run at a loss don't they? They also take up seats on busy trains.

That's why similar offerings on the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) and more recently the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) have been axed and replaced with an enhanced First Class offering. (which is very good on both I have to say!)

If there are any it could just be so FGW^▸ (First Great Western) can say "we haven't axed restaurants" unlike EC.

[JayMac]

I'd be surprised at an expansion of restaurants, as they run at a loss don't they? They also take up seats on busy trains.

They only 'take up seats' in 1st Class, where, even at peak times, there is normally sufficient capacity. I've never seen 1st Class full on a weekday service, except maybe out of Paddington and as far as Reading in the evening peak. A time where no trains departing offer TC^‡(resolve)/Pullman.  On more than one occasion in the recent past I travelled on the 'up' Breakfast Pullman from Bristol Parkway, before it was downgraded to Travelling Chef, where a spend of approximately ^15 got me a full silver service breakfast (cereal, toast, fruit juice, full English, coffee) which allowed travel in 1st Class comfort on a Standard ticket.

I agree though, in part, about these services running at a loss. The current down evening Pullmans, 1803 and 1903 off Paddington do, I believe, make a profit, and these services effectively subsidise the corresponding 'up' services from Plymouth at 1200 and 1255. Those 'up' services are carrying the necessary staff and correct rolling stock for the 1803 and 1903 'down', so it makes sense to offer the full Pullman service. Whether the rumoured return of 'up' breakfast Pullmans and 'down' lunch' Pullmans can pay their way, should they be reintroduced, is open to debate.

The fact that they were withdrawn in 2009 (not forgetting other FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Pullmans withdrawn earlier in the franchise) would suggest that the losses were too heavy to sustain. Quite what's changed now that may see the reintroduction of four Pullman services I know not.

As I've alluded to previously, the rumoured reintroduction of additional Pullmans, along with the recent increase in services offering a Travelling Chef, comes at a time when First Group are busy advertising their bona fides and dressing their shop window in an effort to put some positive spin on their attempt to retain the franchise.....

These 'added value' catering services are unlikely to feature in the Invitation to Tender proscribed by the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about). Catering provision has rarely, if at all, figured in a franchise ITT^▸ (Invitation to Tender), but a bit of positive advertising of the additional 'added value' services funded solely by the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) does show them in a good light. It has to be remembered though that the DfT's sole aim is getting the best value for the taxpayer to move folk from A to B on the railway. Slap up scran in 1st Class is unlikely to figure in their decision.

More cynically, the actual and rumoured increases in catering provision on FGW could be seen as a swan song....

[bobm]

I agree though, in part, about these services running at a loss. The current down evening Pullmans, 1803 and 1903 off Paddington do, I believe, make a profit, and these services effectively subsidise the corresponding 'up' services from Plymouth at 1200 and 1255. Those 'up' services are carrying the necessary staff and correct rolling stock for the 1803 and 1903 'down', so it makes sense to offer the full Pullman service. Whether the rumoured return of 'up' breakfast Pullmans and 'down' lunch' Pullmans can pay their way, should they be reintroduced, is open to debate.

I obviously don't know how many meals they need to serve to make a profit but over the lat year or so there does seem to have been an increase in the number taking lunch on the two up services.  As a single diner I have had to share a table far more regularly than in the past - not that that in itself is a problem, I've met some very interesting people that way.

Just one word about the rolling stock, much to the regret of the staff, they do not keep the same "set" for up and down journeys meaning all the equipment has to be trollied off at Paddington and then reloaded on another train.  The two up trains arrive around 16:00 and there is not the platform capacity to leave them there until it is time to go back. Although of course, as you say, the staff do need to get to Paddington so they might as well serve a meal on the way!

[broadgage]

I can not agree that the restaurant "takes up seats" there are still the same number of seats on the train, and the same number of passengers, whether the restuarant be open or not.
As an example, I use the Pullman regulary on the Golden Hind, I have a first class ticket, and would be sitting in a first class seat, regardless of whether or not the restaurant appears (has been more reliable lately)

I see no need for on board catering to make a profit, providing that any losses are moderate and affordable.
Does the bike rack make a profit ? or the luggage spaces ? or the toilets ?
Providing buffets, and on longer distance services a full restaurant, should be part of running a train service, and not a means of making money.
To make a profit is desireable if possible, but not IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) essiential.


Whilst rumours of re-instating 2 or more Pullmans are welcome, it must be rembered that reliable sources of rumours suggested that 2 pullmans would be re-instated from the recent timetable change, and this did not happen.


BTW^▸ (by the way), in the good old days, we had 7 Pullmans daily from London to the West, and a similar number of return services.
Most were withdrawn "temporarily" after the Hatfield accident, and never re-instated.

[vacman]

The "Rumour" about extra Pullmans is doing the rounds within FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and seems to be coming from some respectable sources also. One thing i do notice about the Pullmans is that they always appear to be overstaffed and cant help but think that it could be done with a couple less people who could be re utilised on providing more Pullmans and improving the profitability.