Three dead in level crossing collision at Halkirk, Caithness - discussion

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

From BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) News

Three people in a car have been killed following a collision with a train at a level crossing in the Highlands.

The accident happened on Bridge Street, Halkirk, in Caithness, at just after 1400 BST.

Eighteen passengers and four staff on the train were not injured. British Transport Police (BTP^▸ (British Transport Police)) confirmed all three who died were in the car.

Scotrail said the 1038 BST passenger service from Inverness to Wick was involved.

The level crossing has warning lights, but no barriers.

BTP, Northern Constabulary and the Rail Accident Investigation Branch will launch a joint investigation at the scene.

A woman was seriously injured when her car was involved in a collision with a train at the same crossing in October 2002.

Raymond Bremner, who works close to the scene of the accident, said he could see a high level of police activity.

He said the crossing had a "reputation for accidents".

Mr Bremner added: "There have been to my knowledge three or four accidents in the past few years."

On its website, train operator Scotrail warned that cancellations and delays to further services on the line should be expected following the accident.

[readytostart]

To my knowledge this is an open crossing on a public road, with warning lights, no barriers however.

[Super Guard]

So if it had been a set of traffic lights with red steady red light they'd have no doubt stopped, but because there are 2 red lights and they are flashing that must mean they should carry on?

[Tim]

So if it had been a set of traffic lights with red steady red light they'd have no doubt stopped, but because there are 2 red lights and they are flashing that must mean they should carry on?

Actually is there an arguement for making level crossing lights similar to normal traffic lights with which even the most stupid driver is familar?

I know people who jump any kind of red light are stupid, but I think that part of the reason that flashing level crossing lights  are ignored is that some ignorant people view them as a warning by analogy with other flashing lights you see on the road rather than a prohibition.  The message they convey to the iginorant is "be careful", "look out for trains", beware barriers about to come down" rather than "DO NOT CROSS".

Or would changing them just be pandering to idiots?

[eightf48544]

I was once told the reason why there are not steady red like traffic lights. It couldn't have been that memorable because I've forgotten what it was.

I've always thought like Tim.

[matt473]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's something simple such as a flashing read light is easier to notice than a steady red light as flashing lights grab peoles attention more than steady lights

[JayMac]

Aren't we being a bit premature in our assumptions here. Three people have died and it is a little unfair on their memory to pre-judge the investigation and inquest into their deaths. Using words like 'stupid', 'ignorant' or 'idiots' is a tad offensive.

Along with driver error there are many possible reasons for this collision. Equipment failure, vehicle defect, driver incapacity, foul play.....

[grahame]

Aren't we being a bit premature in our assumptions here. Three people have died and it is a little unfair on their memory to pre-judge the investigation and inquest into their deaths. Using words like 'stupid', 'ignorant' or 'idiots' is a tad offensive.

Yes, you're right. Statistically, level crossing collisions are more likely to be driver error than anything else, but there are often specific local circumstances.   I note from the news reports that the locals had said 'always was a dangerous crossing', and Halkirk where it happened is a very odd mix.   You have a village that's just about the only population centre for miles, a railway line with stations every few miles at places like Altnabraec (222 journeys per annum) and Forsinard ... yet there isn't a station at this crossing at Halkirk, which is actually the railway's nearest point to that only population centre.   The next stop is at Georgemas, a couple of miles away.  The landscape is, for Scotland very flat in Caithness.

So putting the scene together,  and looking at Google Earth, you have houses and smallholdings scattered around an area, and a railway with occasional trains zipping past.  The road is straight and the only road for miles; I don't know about visibility at the crossing or whether it's obscured by buildings.   We don't know what happened, but we do know there are some extremes. Let's wait and see what the outcome of enquiries says.

[Hafren]

I was once told the reason why there are not steady red like traffic lights. It couldn't have been that memorable because I've forgotten what it was.

I don't know if this is "the" reason, but AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) emergency vehicles can't pass flashing reds. Obviously at normal traffic lights the traffic would stop for blue lights, but a train might find that a bit difficult, so the flashing indicates that added danger.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Quite right, hafren. 

See http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/information/bluelightuse.htm#Blue_Light_Exemptions:

Blue Light Exemptions

While using blue lights, drivers are exempt from a number of motoring regulations, including

- treating a red traffic light as a give way sign
- passing to the wrong side of a keep left bollard
- driving on a motorway hard shoulder (even against the direction of traffic)
- disobeying the speed limit (police, fire and ambulance services only)

However, they are not allowed to

- ignore a 'no entry' sign
- ignore a 'stop' or 'give way' sign
- drive the wrong way down a one-way street
- ignore flashing signs at level crossings or fire stations
- cross a solid white line down the middle of the road ... .

[Tim]

Using words like 'stupid', 'ignorant' or 'idiots' is a tad offensive.

Sorry.  My comments were not aimed at the latest victims but were general comments about level crossing safety.

In general terms there is almost always at least an element of driver error or stupidity, but the acident happens when that error or stupidity inteacts with the specific circumstances and design of the crossing.  This means that although most acidents are not the "fault" of the crossing, there are almost always lessens to be learnt by NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and sometimes things that could be improved.

An exploration of driver phychology can help improve crossing safety, and I think that my comment about flashing lights sending out confusing signals to a minority of drivers is a valid one.   

(changing the subject completely, my other safety-related bee-in-my-bonnet, relates to aircraft seatbelts.  Why does the seatbelt release buckle differ in design from the push buttons you get on cars?  I would not be surprised at all if people's escape from aircraft crashes have been delayed by confused, injured and perhaps even "stupid" passengers who might be sitting in a dark smoke-filled cabbin, instinctively pressing the buckle with their thumb rather than pulling it to open?

[readytostart]

I was once told the reason why there are not steady red like traffic lights. It couldn't have been that memorable because I've forgotten what it was.

I've always thought like Tim.

Could be in case one of the bulbs has blown. As the lights normal state is unlit, if a bulb blew it would look like it was safe to cross with only a single bulb.

[Tim]

I was once told the reason why there are not steady red like traffic lights. It couldn't have been that memorable because I've forgotten what it was.

I've always thought like Tim.

Could be in case one of the bulbs has blown. As the lights normal state is unlit, if a bulb blew it would look like it was safe to cross with only a single bulb.

Ah, but if you had green lights too and lights at both sides of the road

[Chris from Nailsea]

There's a good picture of the Halkirk level crossing (showing the signs and lights) in the latest item from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) on this sad incident: see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/8285063.stm

[grahame]

Three other level crossing references for the same line

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/Highlands_and_islands/8190259.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/8117407.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/7625223.stm

One mentions "European Level Crossing Awareness Day" of which, I confess, I was not aware.
http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.9742
http://www.erscharter.eu/news/14724
And have you come across
http://www.levelcrossing.net/

What IS the best way to reach people?