Bicycles on trains (merged topics)

[whole diary]

[mjones]

Nice try of change of subject. Drivers using mobiles while driving. I like it........
But of course that is illegal so you are entitled to hate them for it. Train Drivers are banned from using mobiles in a cab (except in an emergency or when the CSR^▸ (Cab Secure Radio)/NRN^▸ (National Radio Network) fails).

You have totally missed the point, which is that Jane was hating "cyclists" in general, not just those who have personally caused her harm. I was pointing out that it is just as silly as to say you "hate" all drivers because some commit offences. Just as it would also be silly for me to say I hate railway staff because some are rude and unhelpful...

[Chris from Nailsea]

I think there's much more that could be done to encourage cyclists to not travel with their bike on the train.  Facilities at stations need improving ...

Well, a couple of recent posters displayed on Platform 3 at Bristol Temple Meads do seem to have been intended to 'discourage' any passengers from travelling with their bicycles, or indeed leaving their bicycle at the station:



Apart from the generally 'threatening' tone of this apparently 'official' poster, it is riddled with errors:

- 'abandoned' - amended with correcting fluid;

- 'illegaly' - incorrect spelling;

- 'cycles' or 'bike' - instead of 'bicycle' throughout;

- 'we will regularly check the cycle racks' - apart from the split infinitive, 'regularly' could mean 'once every millennium', rather than 'frequently' (as in, 'at least once every 24 hours').

See also the second cheery poster:



- 'Cycle racks are provided only for customers using the station' - well, yes: as they are on Platform 3, how else could anyone have gained access to them, what with the gateline and all?

- 'Cycles are not to be left for more than a 24 hour period' - erm, what about those wishing to travel to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) on Monday morning and return on Friday evening, for example?

- 'Cycles parked in any other area Will be removed' - 'Will', you have been warned!! 

- 'For station security purposes all cycle panniers must be removed' - for 'security reasons', surely?

While some of the above comments are perhaps a bit light-hearted, I think it still makes the point that any official notices have to be clear and precise, if they are to have any credibility whatever.

Chris. 

[Mookiemoo]

Also, the first used that phrase that should never be used.....ever

ever

ever

under pain of death and prosecution by the english police.

".....daily basis...."

[dog box]

saw a very nice cyclist last night at BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) who in his infinite wisdom decided that he would switch his nice red light on on platform 11 for all to see...any Red Light means STOP as has been mentioned before....also White lights mean go and the intensity of some bike lights comming toward you on dimly light platforms are blinding especially when you are looking for the dispatcher....i know cyclists want to go home but please switch your lights on when you have left the platform...this is a serious safety concern

[Toiletdriver]

Chris, In reply to your last post, 2 "scum" chained their bikes to the column with the phone to contact the signaller next to the St Andrew's cross on platform 3/4!
The number of bikes that are removed from illegally parked places, well there's no room left to store them.
Just finished 5 days in work, and I'd say a good week generally. 85% accepted politely that the bike was not allowed on the train due to being at capacity. And I had a shock Wednesday at seeing a very, very rare sight!
A person pushing his bike at Filton Abbey Wood!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Only 8 signs stating "No riding" 

[bemmy]

- 'Cycles are not to be left for more than a 24 hour period' - erm, what about those wishing to travel to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) on Monday morning and return on Friday evening, for example?

Also, how are cyclists expected to know this beforehand? If they turn up at Temple Meads planning to leave it for several days, then read this sign, are they supposed to cancel their journey and the work or holiday at the other end of it, to comply with an unexpected regulation?

I don't know how long that rule has existed, but I would never again leave my bike overnight at Temple Meads as in my experience, it will probably get stolen, despite being right outside a so-called police station.

[broadgage]

The Dutch has slackened, bikes used 100% banned on platforms, always chained up outside.
Inspector, I've never seen a green light on the front of a bike. Doesn't the highway code specify white?
If fitted, the green LED wouldn't confuse traincrew, too low.

I have not seen a green light RECENTLY on the front of a cycle.
They used to be popular a few years ago, when the lower power use of LEDs was desireable, and white LEDs were not generaly available.

The highway code does indeed require white, but AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know) is seldom enforced re cycles.

[broadgage]

Of course I was forgetting that the once proud Inter-City 125 is nothing more now than a glorified commuter train. Sod anybody with a bike or a bit of luggage. I expect anti-cyclist sentiments from road users, however it seems as though there are just as many bike haters on our rail network.

I would agree that these trains have been downgraded to commuter style.
The removal of tables and luggage space, the removal of catering vehicles, and the prevalence of bus style seating all suggest a commuter service and not inter city.

The next improvement/refresh/modernisation will probably include reducing cycle spaces, this is called progress.

After all new trains are allegedly being considered, and new trains dont have much cycle space, or restaurants, or tables, or luggage space.

[IndustryInsider]

The next improvement/refresh/modernisation will probably include reducing cycle spaces, this is called progress.

The last refresh actually increased bicycle spaces on a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) from six to twelve as three hanging hooks were installed in each of the power cars.  The ones in the power cars are not used very often ever since the original SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) policy was abandoned only months after it was introduced, but they can be useful on occasions.

[inspector_blakey]

Of course I was forgetting that the once proud Inter-City 125 is nothing more now than a glorified commuter train. Sod anybody with a bike or a bit of luggage.

Interesting one that - there's a strong argument to be made the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) actually produced the current situation, since they were some of the very first trains that made relatively long-distance commuting viable. So the long-distance commuter, whom FGW^▸ (First Great Western) find themselves in the awkward position of having to accommodate alongside longer distance travellers on the same services, was really a product of the HSTs themselves.

And it's not really "sod anyone with a bike" when there are 6 spaces per train, is it? Fair enough that there was a slight reduction in luggage space post-refurb, but that was just the gaps between some seat backs that were of limited use anyway, partly because very few people actually realized they were there. Luggage was always an issue on long-distance weekend trains to and from holiday areas beforehand and I don't think the refurb made it a great deal worse.

I would agree that these trains have been downgraded to commuter style.
The removal of tables and luggage space, the removal of catering vehicles, and the prevalence of bus style seating all suggest a commuter service and not inter city.

Oh dear, do we really have to flog this dead horse again. Yes there are fewer tables, and therefore from my point of view less opportunities to have to play footsie for legroom with someone you don't know, or watch them picking their nose. It's not an unequivocally bad thing, you know. Catering vehicles you will note have now all been reinstated, so that argument doesn't hold up. And if you think the FGW HST seating is bus-style you evidently haven't been on many buses recently. I can promise you from extensive experience using rail replacement coaches that the seats in those vehicles are far less comfortable. I know you like to say that FGW HST passengers have to sit with "theire knees behind there ears" but that's utter nonsense.

The next improvement/refresh/modernisation will probably include reducing cycle spaces, this is called progress.

Based on what, other than your excessive and unsubstantiated negativity? Without significant and extensive structural alterations to TGS vehicles that would also have to include fitting secondary door locking to the guard's area (rest assured, that ain't happening), the bike storage area is of no use for anything else.

After all new trains are allegedly being considered, and new trains dont have much cycle space, or restaurants, or tables, or luggage space.

What on earth do you mean? What new trains? If you're talking about the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) fleet suggested as an HST replacement then that's still at the stage of bickering about how the things are actually going to drag themselves along the rails. No-one's even got close to specifying the interior of said trains at the moment, as far as I'm aware. Would you like to back up that assertion that there won't be much cycle space, luggage space etc etc or is it just a spurious claim based on absolutely no evidence?

[broadgage]

My remarks re the likelyhood of reduced cycle space, luggage space on a new train, is, I grant not based on hard evidence, but is based on other new trains.

New trains in general have fewer seats, spaced closer together, and less luggage/cycle space than those they replace.

Virgin Voyagers had fewer seats, and less luggage space than those they replaced.

The new DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) introduced a few years ago on services to/from Loughborough were a significant backward step compared to the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) used previously.

A 5 car Adelante was a backward step compared to an HST.

It is of course possible that the proposed new trains will be longer than existing ones, with tables, luggage space, legroom, catering, cycle spaces etc.
As you point out, the mechanical design has yet to be decided, let alone the internal layout. However experience of other new trains suggests that any new trains will be a backward step, as is the norm.

Local services are not exempt from downgrading ! After years of disruption and the spending of many billions of public money, the East London Line has recently re-opened. The result is that 3 car trains have replaced 4 car ones, and with far fewer seats per vehicle. This is known as progress.

[IndustryInsider]

Whilst taking your point about Voyagers and some other comments you've made, there's plenty of counter-arguments that should be made.

A 5 car Adelante was a backward step compared to an HST^▸ (High Speed Train).

In what respect?  6 cycle spaces matched the HST's of the time in a much shorter train.  Better acceleration, better braking, air-conditioning that on the whole worked better.  A better seating layout with seats that matched the windows as well as a HST's layout at the time did, but without those annoying fixed arm rests.  Automatic doors that helped reduce station dwell times. 

Sure, you could argue that they were shorter, but they were only designed to operate the quieter services on the hourly London to Cardiff trains and other more lightly loaded services - they ended up on the Cotswolds, where again they were much better suited on the majority of trains - just look at the Turbo's that have now been drafted in because the HST's aren't suitable!

You could also argue that the underfloor engines weren't as good as separate power cars, but it would make little sense on such a short train.

After years of disruption and the spending of many billions of public money, the East London Line has recently re-opened. The result is that 3 car trains have replaced 4 car ones, and with far fewer seats per vehicle. This is known as progress.

Not sure where you're getting that from.  All East London Line Class 378's are 4-car trains.  The 378's on the other Overground routes may have been delivered as 3-car trains, but are now being extended to 4-cars over the coming months.  Most of the trains they replaced were 3-car 313's anyway.  The seating layout is more than adequate off-peak and in the peak hours having much more standing space is a bonus on a very busy commuter route where passengers are taking short journeys and often fully expecting to stand.  The ride quality on a Class 378 is far better than on the old 'A' stock - due to better suspension and re-laid track, and air conditioning means that you're not sweltering in the tunnels in the summer. 

Also, with only seven trains in the fleet, any shortages impacted upon the old Underground service much more than it does today.  And of course rather than the very limited number of stations served on the old ELL, you can now make through journeys to many more useful destinations like West Croyden, Sydenham and Crystal Palace.  Early next year the extension to Canonbury and Highbury & Islington will open (offering a cross-platform change onto NLL services), and in 2012 Phase 2 should be open with direct trains to Peckham, Wandsworth and Clapham.  According to TfL^» (Transport for London - about) they are expecting ridership on the line to go from 10m to 50m journeys a year as a result.  That is known as progress!

[standclearplease]

If you all think there are a lot of cycles on platform three, you should check out lost property.

[SDS]

More miserable bike passengers today because I refused to allow them travel on a turbo which had 2 bikes in each doorway.
Shame I have to always threaten BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) before they move, nice that another passenger 'helped' them off the train.

[basset44]

Hi All,

10 Points for anybody who can tell me from which country does this relate to in regards to bikes

"If you take a train, you choose one of the most environment friendly ways of transport. Perhaps only biking can beat it. And the two can be linked^

And what is more, if you take a train, you can plan your trip without constraint, without having to return to your destination where you drove.

You are awaited by several towns and regions even after you have got to know your immediate ^range^ and you want to boldly ride your bike where no one has ridden before. For this you do not have to bike through borders, our international trains offer not only to you, but to your bike too a comfortable and safe way to travel. Some of our trains feature all year round or only in the summer a car to transport bikes, in which ^ close to your bike ^ you can travel comfortably, and maybe spend the night in a fully made-up bed."

Basset