Joining Short - re-opened

[whole diary]

[matt473]

A proper fares simplification, not window dressing, coupled with smart card/ticket technology and automated ticket validation (touch in-touch out ^ la oyster) is what is needed.
The technology is there and has been proven in other markets. Passengers will less likely be mis-sold a fare or caught out with restrictions. The TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) will be able to use the technology to gather accurate data on passenger numbers, routes etc, thus enabling them to better plan services.
As I've said elsewhere, there is a hefty capital investment needed for start-up which would require all interested parties to sing from the same song sheet. However at the moment there is too much short-termism in 'UK^▸ (United Kingdom) Rail'.

This may eventually lead to advance fares being no more if the TOCs expect everyone to pay on the day through the smart card. There is nothing wrong with paper ticker ticket but a smart card should be available to use across the network along with teh currentpaper tickets.

[JayMac]

There is no need for smart cards to only be available for walk up fares. Buy your AP ticket online and enter your smartcard details along with your payment card details. Or buy your AP at the station and have your card loaded as you would with a walk up fare.

[Btline]

You could buy an Advance ticket at a ticket office, and have it loaded onto your Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) card there and then.

Or, for online purchases, have an Oyster option in the delivery section, so the ticket gets "sent" to your card automatically. (for free) Ditto for season tickets.

All guards/RPIs^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) would carry a scanner with a red and green light. They would scan the oyster card: if the ticket's valid, a green light would show; if not, a red light and a buzzer would sound. The machine would give details of the problem, and a suggest a suitable excess. This would also do Advance tickets. The guard would programme the service into the scanner, so it would show a red light if an Advance ticket holder was travelling on the wrong train.

It would speed up ticket checking, thus reducing evasion.

NB: Of course, paper tickets would NOT be phased out (for elderly and other people who can't cope with the concept of a Smartcard).

BUT, in London, they have seen the use of paper tickets fall dramatically - 80% of journeys use Oyster. I expect the 20% are mainly outsiders of London. If Oyster were to be spread around the country, then figure would rise to 95%. TfL^» (Transport for London - about) already want a Visitors' Oyster card, eliminating paper tickets for tourists.

[basset44]

Hi All,

When we on the discussion of Tickets why dont they call Advance tickets by what appears they really are which is Long Distance Train Tickets because I was under the impression that book in advance to get the best deals but no if you journey is not long enough it dose not count.

Could anybody tell me the distance or is it up to each TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) to decide?

Basset

[Brucey]

I know I have said it before, but all ticket restrictions ought to be printed on the ticket itself.  If they are too complicated to fit, they shouldn't exist

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but this is a really good idea.

This site has an example of an Amtrak ticket from the US: http://www.ci.richmond.ca.us/index.aspx?NID=1859
You'll need to zoom in on the picture, but the tickets shows a few things that I like:
"AAA Discount - Membership Card Rqrd" rather than just quoting a code like we do (Y-P, GPS-3, etc)
"Fee for Exch or Rfnd"
"No Rail Rfnd once tvl begins"
"No Stopovers"

Makes the ticket restrictions incredibly clear and stops any confusion.

[Mookiemoo]

I know I have said it before, but all ticket restrictions ought to be printed on the ticket itself.  If they are too complicated to fit, they shouldn't exist

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but this is a really good idea.

This site has an example of an Amtrak ticket from the US: http://www.ci.richmond.ca.us/index.aspx?NID=1859
You'll need to zoom in on the picture, but the tickets shows a few things that I like:
"AAA Discount - Membership Card Rqrd" rather than just quoting a code like we do (Y-P, GPS-3, etc)
"Fee for Exch or Rfnd"
"No Rail Rfnd once tvl begins"
"No Stopovers"

Makes the ticket restrictions incredibly clear and stops any confusion.

Wont legibly fit onto a credit card - so to intorduce them - redesign all those wonderful ticket barriers

[Tim]

I know I have said it before, but all ticket restrictions ought to be printed on the ticket itself.  If they are too complicated to fit, they shouldn't exist

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but this is a really good idea.

This site has an example of an Amtrak ticket from the US: http://www.ci.richmond.ca.us/index.aspx?NID=1859
You'll need to zoom in on the picture, but the tickets shows a few things that I like:
"AAA Discount - Membership Card Rqrd" rather than just quoting a code like we do (Y-P, GPS-3, etc)
"Fee for Exch or Rfnd"
"No Rail Rfnd once tvl begins"
"No Stopovers"

Makes the ticket restrictions incredibly clear and stops any confusion.

Wont legibly fit onto a credit card - so to intorduce them - redesign all those wonderful ticket barriers

OR simplfy the ticket conditions so they do fit.   

I am surprised this hasn't been tested in court, but TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) may well be on legally sticky ground enforcing restrictions against passengers where the passenger genuinely did not know about the restriction and where it was not drawn to the passenegrs attention clearly enough.  Remember the suggestion that mortgage lenders might not be able to enforce the collars on tracker deals if they didn't disclose the collar clearly enough in the mortgage fact box?

I know that the legislation is different and TOCs don't have to comply with the FSA, but tickets are covered by the Unfair Contract Terms Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_Contract_Terms_Act_1977 which requires resonableness in consumer contract terms.

TOCs have constructed a very complicated system and it has reached the point where reasonable customers (ordinary people who are resonably honest but not not experts) can come a cropper. 

[JayMac]

I think there is some truth in what you say Tim. I too would like to see ticket restrictions publicised much more clearly at the time of purchase. This needs to be done unambiguously and provided to the customer in writing (i.e a print-off on headed paper) if requested. Merely having a ticket clerk tell you or writing them down on a scrap of paper is not good enough, particularly if you are challenged later in your journey.

As for the 'reasonableness' test I can't see ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) or individual TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) wanting to go to court, when someone has been penalised for unknowingly breaking restrictions. I think they'd secretly agree they are on shaky legal ground and prefer to deal with the customer by way of refunds.

There is a flip-side as well. Those 'in-the-know' can use anomalies and ambiguity in the restrictions to their advantage..... I know I have, and I don't feel guilty in the slightest!

[John R]

Also, I've lost count of how many times my train is pulling out of Temple Meads when the TM^‡(resolve) announces that Off Peak tickets are not valid. Fair enough, but surely better to announce whilst the train is boarding. It's too late once it's departed.

[devon_metro]

Also, I've lost count of how many times my train is pulling out of Temple Meads when the TM^‡(resolve) announces that Off Peak tickets are not valid. Fair enough, but surely better to announce whilst the train is boarding. It's too late once it's departed.

Presumably toilet occupancy rate increases!