Joining Short - re-opened

[whole diary]

[basset44]

Sorry, did not mean to encourage fare evasion etc. Just wanted to see if it was legal I know I should try and read T&C more. Thanks to all those who informed me that I cannot do this.

It would appear you need a degree to understand the Fare structure and that brings us back to earlier posts on the crazy fare's which should be sorted.

Why is it where there is no other TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) operating on a route the Fare's seem higher or there dose not seem to be a correlation between distance travelled on routes.

Why if you have time it would be cheaper to go from A to B by going back to Z day singles on certain trips?

And thanks to the moderators

[Chris from Nailsea]

And thanks to the moderators

Thanks, in turn, bassett44. 

We on the admin team here only step in, on this forum, when we really feel we have to do so.  Unfortunately, on some topics, we do have to adopt an approach of, 'better safe than sorry'.

However, in this case, there's 'no harm done' - and the overly-complicated and often bizarre fare structure remains a valid subject for general debate! 

[Mookiemoo]

I have considered and I'm NOT removing mine

generally I have co-operated with the mods  and volunteered more than asked on occasion but on this I think - no, its ridiculous.

I can see how getting a shorter journey then staying on for a longer one is evasion - but it is only in the realms of TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) fantasy land you can charge someone more from cardiff to leominster than swansea to leominster.

Yes I know one is an advance fare but it does take the biscuit.  Sort it out.

There needs to be a complete sea change in how fares are priced and the technology used.

If I can use an iphone as  a boarding card for a flight - train companies can surely find some better way of making sure fares are fool proof rather than dumb barriers and dumber barrier staff (in my experience they are either poorly literate or dumb).  We're in the 21st century

[Chris from Nailsea]

I have considered and I'm NOT removing mine

Thanks, FallenAngel.  However, just for the record, there was no request on our part for any posts to be removed: grahame merely stated that we "invite posters who made prior comment to amend their posts if they wish".

There needs to be a complete sea change in how fares are priced and the technology used.

And I, for one, agree with you completely on that!

[Mookiemoo]

I have considered and I'm NOT removing mine

Thanks, FallenAngel.  However, just for the record, there was no request on our part for any posts to be removed: grahame merely stated that we "invite posters who made prior comment to amend their posts if they wish".

There needs to be a complete sea change in how fares are priced and the technology used.

And I, for one, agree with you completely on that!

And I agree - it is because I feel so strongly on this I am expressly making the point.

Graham invited - I spent the day considering my point - and I stand by it.
And I wanted to emphasis my point!

[Btline]

I decided to remove mine as it was encouraging someone to "join short" by suggesting a way of doing so.

As joining short is apparently Fare Evasion, I decided that it would help the moderators if I were to remove it - i.e. save any potential headaches.

However, I think the system is ridiculous, and I agree wholeheartedly with Fallen Angel!

[vacman]

The post I made was referring to Advance tickets as that is what the initial post was about!

[Mookiemoo]

The post I made was referring to Advance tickets as that is what the initial post was about!

As was mine

[Btline]

As was mine....

Where's this going?

[Chris from Nailsea]

I'm rather reluctant to step in here again ( ), but it appears that all of the previous posts on this particular topic were indeed made in the context of 'advance' tickets - and their possible (mis)use.

And that's exactly the issue: many such 'advance' tickets do have that potential for 'abuse', due to the various anomalies in their pricing.

[TerminalJunkie]

The post I made was referring to Advance tickets as that is what the initial post was about!

Then why not quote some of that 'initial' post, and make it clear that's what you were referring to?  The thread title doesn't mention Advance tickets and, looking back, most of the intermediate posts didn't either!

[grahame]

Follow ups read, thank you everyone.

I read the following ...

From National Conditions of Carriage.

You may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a return ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the ticket you hold is valid for the trains you want to use. You may also end your journey (in either direction in the case of a return ticket) before the destination shown on the ticket. However, these rights may not apply to some types of tickets for which a break of journey is prohibited, in which case the relevant Train Companies will make this clear in their notices and other publications.

From First Great Western's web site:

Advance fares are value for money tickets that are available if you plan and book your journey in advance.  Reservations are required for the journey and you must travel on the train shown on your ticket or reservation confirmation.  These tickets are subject to availability on selected trains.

From the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Tickets web site

DESCRIPTION: Non-refundable ticket, only valid for the date, time and trains specified.

VALIDITY: You must travel on the date, time and trains specified.

The latter two quotes are from the pages that relate to tickets purchased at advanced fares for future travel.

I know that the professionals on here who have addressed the question of joining short have assured us it is totally against the rules for an advanced ticket, but I am left asking ...

If I buy a ticket from the FGW web site based on the above, isn't it these conditions (which I read and checked were right for me) that form the basis of my contract?  (If they don't, what on earth are they doing there?)  Therefore it IS legal for me to join and/or leave short provided I use the right train.

[Tim]

I know that the professionals on here who have addressed the question of joining short have assured us it is totally against the rules for an advanced ticket, but I am left asking ...

If I buy a ticket from the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) web site based on the above, isn't it these conditions (which I read and checked were right for me) that form the basis of my contract?  (If they don't, what on earth are they doing there?)  Therefore it IS legal for me to join and/or leave short provided I use the right train.

Not legal, but IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) you would have a very good defence if you were ever prosecuted for joining short and I suspect tbat any sensible magistrate would side with you.  Does anyone know if anyone has ever been sucessfully prosecuted or even charged with this sort of ticket fraud. 

I know I have said it before, but all ticket restrictions ought to be printed on the ticket itself.  If they are too complicated to fit, they shouldn't exist

[JayMac]

A proper fares simplification, not window dressing, coupled with smart card/ticket technology and automated ticket validation (touch in-touch out ^ la oyster) is what is needed.
The technology is there and has been proven in other markets. Passengers will less likely be mis-sold a fare or caught out with restrictions. The TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) will be able to use the technology to gather accurate data on passenger numbers, routes etc, thus enabling them to better plan services.
As I've said elsewhere, there is a hefty capital investment needed for start-up which would require all interested parties to sing from the same song sheet. However at the moment there is too much short-termism in 'UK^▸ (United Kingdom) Rail'.

[Btline]

Hopefully, Southern, Southeastern and c2c (the only "contained" TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) around London) will just extend Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) across their whole networks.

Then gradually, other TOCs can extened, line by line, until every station in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) has a Oyster validator!