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Author Topic: How can west drayton affect ascot under whychwood? or am I being dim....  (Read 6970 times)
Mookiemoo
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« on: August 20, 2009, 15:29:50 »

From the FGW (First Great Western) website - surely it would affect more than just blinking AScott

Line problem between Southall and West Drayton.

    Train services at Ascott-Under-Wychwood are being disrupted due to earlier signalling problems between Southall and West Drayton.Engineers have worked as fast as possible to restore services to normal. Short notice alterations, cancellations and delays of up to 45 minutes can be expected.

    South West trains are accepting First Great Western tickets from Reading to London Waterloo and between Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo via Staines. Customers with off peak and advanced purchase tickets will not be affected by any restrictions out of London Paddington today.

    Last Updated: 20/08/2009 14:53
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Mookiemoo
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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2009, 15:32:51 »

Seems to be affecting far more than Ascott according to all the cancellations...

Question to the panel - what are my chances of getting home tonight?  Is there any idea when this will be sorted?
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Ditched former sig - now I need to think of something amusing - brain hurts -I'll steal from the master himself - Einstein:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
eightf48544
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« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2009, 15:46:11 »

Wondered why it was quite just realised I've not heard many trains passing through Taplow this pm.
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JayMac
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« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2009, 16:14:57 »

As at 16:13 'Ascott-under-Wychwood' has been removed from the 'line incident' update. Quite why it was there in the first place......
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johoare
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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2009, 16:16:21 »

Brilliant.. I was about to head out to the station to head up to London for an evening out (16.47 departure from Maidenhead).. Luckily I knew there were problems and checked before I left.. My train has been cancelled.. What I don't understand is that it's timetabled to arrive at Reading only 5 minutes late yet is cancelled the rest of the way into London.. I could understand them turning them around and Reading if they were very very late to reduce the knock on effect later on, but five minutes?  Huh
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2009, 19:34:59 »

Brilliant.. I was about to head out to the station to head up to London for an evening out (16.47 departure from Maidenhead).. Luckily I knew there were problems and checked before I left.. My train has been cancelled.. What I don't understand is that it's timetabled to arrive at Reading only 5 minutes late yet is cancelled the rest of the way into London.. I could understand them turning them around and Reading if they were very very late to reduce the knock on effect later on, but five minutes?  Huh

It's purely a matter of thinning out the service. If all trains were running then a huge queue would soon build up as the reduced signalling flexibility couldn't cope with them all and the delays to all services would be much worse as a result. NR» (Network Rail - home page) and FGW (First Great Western) thought that removing the Oxford to Paddington stoppers would be sensible, and I'm guessing that was one of them. There was a broadly every 30 minutes service running between Maidenhead and Paddington though.
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2009, 22:44:09 »

As at 16:13 'Ascott-under-Wychwood' has been removed from the 'line incident' update. Quite why it was there in the first place......

Because the Cotswold Line service was stuffed up - like it always is once trains are out of their slots and don't hit the single line sections at the right time - which is why the redoubling is being done.

And not sure why it was removed from updates. Cotswold services were still a mess well into the evening, with the 17.22 and 17.51 from London both about 20 minutes late throughout between Oxford and Moreton-in-Marsh, causing the same delay to the trains waiting for them to pass at Ascott, which in turn feeds more delays back into the system towards London, etc, etc.
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JayMac
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2009, 23:08:44 »

As at 16:13 'Ascott-under-Wychwood' has been removed from the 'line incident' update. Quite why it was there in the first place......

Because the Cotswold Line service was stuffed up - like it always is once trains are out of their slots and don't hit the single line sections at the right time - which is why the redoubling is being done.

And not sure why it was removed from updates. Cotswold services were still a mess well into the evening, with the 17.22 and 17.51 from London both about 20 minutes late throughout between Oxford and Moreton-in-Marsh, causing the same delay to the trains waiting for them to pass at Ascott, which in turn feeds more delays back into the system towards London, etc, etc.

But the 'line incident' update was a general notice. Ascott certainly wasn't the only station affected. Individual train delays were then listed beneath the 'line incident' update. I agree that the single line sections cause knock on problems for far longer than may be the case across the rest of the network, however stock and staff were no doubt all over the shop, and diagrams were probably being re-written on the fly. Be thankful that the 1722 and 1751 were running, albeit late. Pax earlier in the day weren't so lucky.
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willc
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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2009, 23:14:59 »

ie a badly-written web message - the kind of thing I seem to recall FGW (First Great Western) was advertising for someone to get to grips with not that long ago - clearly they haven't done it yet.
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johoare
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« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2009, 00:55:04 »

Brilliant.. I was about to head out to the station to head up to London for an evening out (16.47 departure from Maidenhead).. Luckily I knew there were problems and checked before I left.. My train has been cancelled.. What I don't understand is that it's timetabled to arrive at Reading only 5 minutes late yet is cancelled the rest of the way into London.. I could understand them turning them around and Reading if they were very very late to reduce the knock on effect later on, but five minutes?  Huh

It's purely a matter of thinning out the service. If all trains were running then a huge queue would soon build up as the reduced signalling flexibility couldn't cope with them all and the delays to all services would be much worse as a result. NR» (Network Rail - home page) and FGW (First Great Western) thought that removing the Oxford to Paddington stoppers would be sensible, and I'm guessing that was one of them. There was a broadly every 30 minutes service running between Maidenhead and Paddington though.

Oh yes.. Not just thinning out though.. Not only were they only running half the normal services, those running were stopping EVERYWHERE.. Which means a good hour from Maidenhead to Paddington (30 miles - work that out, not very fast).. That wasn't explained anywhere on FGW or National rail.. If  someone had bothered to explain that vital bit of information I would have planned my journey a lot differently

I also have a couple of comments on what appeared to me as Chaos.. total choas..

Having seen the 16.47 was cancelled. I aimed for the 17.02.. I got there (maidenhead) on time.. It became apparent (see above) that is wasn't the usual 17.02, it was a whole different 17.02 which was stopping everywhere and would never get to Paddington as timetabled.. As we all got on this lovely train (by the way, thank goodness it WAS NOT air conditioned!! Smiley), we glanced to our right to the "fast" platform to see a london bound intercity which had stopped there, with doors open and being despatched by station staff, but had not been announced.. What was that about then? I'm sure lots of people were only going first stop to Paddington so why weren't we given the chance to get there quickly? And why did the intercity stop there if no one got on. The station staff knew about it as I saw them sprint from our platform over to the fast train.. Surely enough time for us mere mortals to sprint too?

So anyway, I got to Slough, and I knew there was a fast train to Paddington allegedly due to arrive two minutes after my  very slow train.. So I, and lots of others, got off and sprinted over to the fast platform, to find that just as we got down the steps, the train was allowed to depart.. How difficult would it have been to co-ordinate this.. The slow train will undoubtedly have been full to overflowing before it even got halfway to Paddington.. So a bit of co-ordinating would have got lots of people on the fast train out of Slough (we got to see it was half empty!).. But there was no co-ordinating. The result was lots of people missing the fast train.. One man also mentioned to me that the announcements at Slough had been telling people to swap between slow and fast lines, and back, finally telling people that the slow train would be the first arrival at Paddington (!) thus causing them to miss the fast train.. hhmmm.. Not good PR (Public Relations) for anyone involved..

So.. a bad situation, made worse, even worse than  I guessed it would be!!
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Mookiemoo
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« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2009, 01:01:49 »

Brilliant.. I was about to head out to the station to head up to London for an evening out (16.47 departure from Maidenhead).. Luckily I knew there were problems and checked before I left.. My train has been cancelled.. What I don't understand is that it's timetabled to arrive at Reading only 5 minutes late yet is cancelled the rest of the way into London.. I could understand them turning them around and Reading if they were very very late to reduce the knock on effect later on, but five minutes?  Huh

It's purely a matter of thinning out the service. If all trains were running then a huge queue would soon build up as the reduced signalling flexibility couldn't cope with them all and the delays to all services would be much worse as a result. NR» (Network Rail - home page) and FGW (First Great Western) thought that removing the Oxford to Paddington stoppers would be sensible, and I'm guessing that was one of them. There was a broadly every 30 minutes service running between Maidenhead and Paddington though.

Oh yes.. Not just thinning out though.. Not only were they only running half the normal services, those running were stopping EVERYWHERE.. Which means a good hour from Maidenhead to Paddington (30 miles - work that out, not very fast).. That wasn't explained anywhere on FGW or National rail.. If  someone had bothered to explain that vital bit of information I would have planned my journey a lot differently

I also have a couple of comments on what appeared to me as Chaos.. total choas..

Having seen the 16.47 was cancelled. I aimed for the 17.02.. I got there (maidenhead) on time.. It became apparent (see above) that is wasn't the usual 17.02, it was a whole different 17.02 which was stopping everywhere and would never get to Paddington as timetabled.. As we all got on this lovely train (by the way, thank goodness it WAS NOT air conditioned!! Smiley), we glanced to our right to the "fast" platform to see a london bound intercity which had stopped there, with doors open and being despatched by station staff, but had not been announced.. What was that about then? I'm sure lots of people were only going first stop to Paddington so why weren't we given the chance to get there quickly? And why did the intercity stop there if no one got on. The station staff knew about it as I saw them sprint from our platform over to the fast train.. Surely enough time for us mere mortals to sprint too?

So anyway, I got to Slough, and I knew there was a fast train to Paddington allegedly due to arrive two minutes after my  very slow train.. So I, and lots of others, got off and sprinted over to the fast platform, to find that just as we got down the steps, the train was allowed to depart.. How difficult would it have been to co-ordinate this.. The slow train will undoubtedly have been full to overflowing before it even got halfway to Paddington.. So a bit of co-ordinating would have got lots of people on the fast train out of Slough (we got to see it was half empty!).. But there was no co-ordinating. The result was lots of people missing the fast train.. One man also mentioned to me that the announcements at Slough had been telling people to swap between slow and fast lines, and back, finally telling people that the slow train would be the first arrival at Paddington (!) thus causing them to miss the fast train.. hhmmm.. Not good PR (Public Relations) for anyone involved..

So.. a bad situation, made worse, even worse than  I guessed it would be!!

Similar ******** ups contributed to me beign rther terse with a CH tonight.............I am not normally ever abusive to the staff - even if they are being knob end jobsworths.

But after shenanigans trying to get to paddington that involved a packed out turbo which waas sardine like - because it seemed rather random from slough if anything was going to arrive and go to reading - I was unable to get a beloved coke becuse the CH had no crd machine (no I dont carry cash and in the past it was free) and the other option was to Q at the buffet which I would have still been standing there at Reading!

Then we had the TM(resolve) from cheltenham - that is a post for tomorrow when I calm down!
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Ditched former sig - now I need to think of something amusing - brain hurts -I'll steal from the master himself - Einstein:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
JayMac
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« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2009, 01:34:52 »

May I suggest that any vitriol be directed at those responsible for the signal failure? Be it Network Rail, contractors, cable thieves or vandalising scrotes. FGW (First Great Western) front-line staff don't deserve critiscism.
Finding fault with their efforts in such trying circumstances is an understandable reaction, but these poor folk are merely trying to do the best they can. When facing severe disruption the platform staff and CH's are often at the very end of a long chain of command and maybe as much in the dark as the passengers.
Trains and staff were, no doubt, all over the place. Rosters had probably gone out the window. Diagrams and calling patterns were most likely being changed, and changed again in a effort to provide the best possible service for all passengers across the network. These staff are already under pressure because their normal routine has gone out the window and they know they are going to be dealing with angry passengers.
As for a CH not having a card-swipe jobbie, this is also understandable when assets are all over the place because of the disruption.
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"A clear conscience laughs at a false accusation."
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« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2009, 09:19:07 »

I totally agree bignosemac.. My post was more an information gathering exercise rather than a finger pointing one.. And was written in the hope that FGW (First Great Western) management will read it and learn lessons for next time (eg you have two trains worth of people waiting for a train and two trains pull in... let the people get on BOTH trains next time - that is not rocket science)...And the half hourly service had been running ALL afternoon so someone somewhere must have known it was stopping everywhere and could easily have posted it on FGW/NR» (Network Rail - home page) website.. but didn't..
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 09:29:06 by johoare » Logged
eightf48544
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« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2009, 10:25:07 »

It is one of the hazards of operating the railways that when things go wrong events esculate very quickly.

When things are running to time (I exempt platform 4 at Reading ) everyone knows what train is what where it stops etc.

As soon as things go wrong you end up with the situation as described by bignosemac, trains and staff all over the place.

It needs very quick thinking by FGW (First Great Western) and Networkrail staff to get things moving again in a sensible fashion. Of course the split doesn't help, in my days at Sutton (5 way junction) we could ring the signalbox from the station and tell the signalmen what order we wanted the trains.

Thisinformation then has to be disseminated to the stations, the CIS (Customer Information System) operators and web page personnel. This all takes time meanwhile things on the ground are constantly changing so the information  passed is probably already out of date.

Maidenhead were probably as surprised as johare was to get an HST (High Speed Train) on 2 with the doors open they probably wanted to get rid of it asap so they wouldn't be accused of holding it up.

There seems less reason for Slough not to allowed Padd bound passengers to catch the fast. Although I understand that despatch staff are under strict instructions to despatch trains on time. However, I would have though in these circumstances some descretion could have been allowed. As it would have meant more room on the all stations for intermediate passengers.

Of course the real upshot of this disruption is that the only people who will benefit will be the "bean counters" who will now argue over delay minutes and to who is responsible for each one.

I feel sorry the poor FGW frontline staff having to take all the flak for other peoples decisions.
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Tim
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« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2009, 11:17:54 »

Similar ******** ups contributed to me beign rther terse with a CH tonight.............I am not normally ever abusive to the staff - even if they are being knob end jobsworths.

But after shenanigans

You should NEVER be abusive to staff. 
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