Bit of an over zealous CH tonight........and poor choice

[whole diary]

[devon_metro]

I have plenty

[readytostart]

Also on the topic of ^10/^20 notes, i've worked today and ended up with ^250 in ticket sales, and ^180 of that was ^20 notes, ^60 in ^10 notes, and I was running very low indeed on change by the end to the point that another ^10 or ^20 would mean offering change in 50p, 20p or 10p's... so I do have some sympathy with the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) host if this was the case, and no FGW^▸ (First Great Western)/XC/SWT^▸ (South West Trains) do not issue guards/hosts with endless amounts of change, probably for security rather than "they don't trust the staff"  .

Here at ScotRail we're given a ^20 float which is hardly sufficient when you're often on the same set for four hours or so and rarely see a booking office.

On a flip note, equally as annoying as a ^20 note for a ^2 fare are the people who scratch around in their pockets and hand bags for fluff and coppers to give you. What I didn't know until recently was the Coinage Act of 1971 limits the amount of smash people can give you, here's a quick cut and paste:

(1A)Subject to any provision made by proclamation under section 3 of this Act, coins of cupro-nickel, silver or bronze shall be legal tender as follows^.
(a)coins of cupro-nickel or silver of denominations of more than 10 pence, for payment of any amount not exceeding ^10;.
(b)coins of cupro-nickel or silver of denominations of not more than 10 pence, for payment of any amount not exceeding ^5;.
(c)coins of bronze, for payment of any amount not exceeding 20 pence.

Pop that in your pipe and smoke it bag and pocket scratchers! Lucky when I was a youngun the man at the cornershop didn't know this when I went in for my 25p bag of sweeties!

[TerminalJunkie]

Here at ScotRail [...]

What I didn't know until recently was the Coinage Act of 1971 limits the amount of smash people can give you, here's a quick cut and paste:

(1A)Subject to any provision made by proclamation under section 3 of this Act, coins of cupro-nickel, silver or bronze shall be legal tender as follows^.

'Legal Tender' has nothing to do with retail transactions, and has only a narrow technical definition in relation to the settlement of a debt.

Besides, if you really only accepted 'Legal Tender', then in Scotland you would only take coins, since banknotes issued by the Scottish retail banks are merely promissory notes, and Bank of England notes are only legal tender in England and Wales.

[JayMac]

That narrow definition of legal tender could, however, apply to a rail journey. A debt will be owed if the passenger reaches their destination before having the opportunity to buy a ticket. In that instance, settlement of the debt could be paid using a maximum of ^15.20 in coins (^10 in 20p or 50p - ^5 in 10p or 5p - ^0.20 in 2p or 1p) and this could not be refused in settlement of the debt.

Also, a debt would occur if you accepted an item from the trolley/buffet and wolfed it down before offering payment! Your not likely to endear yourself to a CH (or others in the Buffet queue) if, after scoffing that BLT you then proceed to count out ^2.95 in 5p's......

[TerminalJunkie]

That narrow definition of legal tender could, however, apply to a rail journey. A debt will be owed if the passenger reaches their destination before having the opportunity to buy a ticket. In that instance, settlement of the debt could be paid using a maximum of ^15.20 in coins (^10 in 20p or 50p - ^5 in 10p or 5p - ^0.20 in 2p or 1p) and this could not be refused in settlement of the debt.

Not quite true: the creditor can refuse to accept any payment, but if the offer was made using legal tender the creditor would have difficulty recovering the debt since the debtor now has a defence against any claim for non-payment.

Also, a debt would occur if you accepted an item from the trolley/buffet and wolfed it down before offering payment!

Again, that's not strictly true: offering an item for sale is an 'invitation to treat', and the parties may start to negotiate for the exchange of the item. If you scoffed it before coming to such an agreement that would more correctly be regarded as theft.

[devonian]

As a student, I used to work on and run bars. We would start with a float of ^100 of which ^20 was in fivers. We'd run out of fivers pretty early on - on larger functions, there would be a change bag available with ^100 of fivers. We could still run out. ^20 float for Scotrail - how on Earth are you able to give change?!

I never used to carry cash as card was accepted everywhere. Since changing jobs and lifestyle, I now deal in cash a lot and realise it is a LOT easier and quicker than card. When I used to hardly ever carry cash thjough, I would generally only have ^10 or ^20 pound notes straight out of a machine. Surely the train companies must realise what ATMs^‡(resolve) dispense and that they are going to need to carry a float that can deal with that. Almost everyday on the 0803 NTA^» (Newton Abbott - next trains) EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) the CH would ask for change. That early in the morning, they were going to struggle the rest of the day.

Also, it is not really a question of cost for the float either. There is enough cash that will go through for processing that all fivers can be pulled out and reserved (well, a reasonable amount rather than all!). This has to be processed anyway and avoids any bank chrages that would be levied for the provision of change.

[JayMac]

Again, that's not strictly true: offering an item for sale is an 'invitation to treat', and the parties may start to negotiate for the exchange of the item. If you scoffed it before coming to such an agreement that would more correctly be regarded as theft.

Yes your right, It would be theft. A better analogy would be on a Pullman where an implied term of the contract is to accept payment after the food is consumed. Again the Steward/ess won't be impressed with part/full payment in ^15.20 of shrapnel. And as you rightly say, the offer to pay with coinage up to the legal tender amounts could still be refused, but 'the creditor would have difficulty recovering the debt since the debtor now has a defence....'

What a strange topic of conversation to start the day with......still, helped get me brain in gear.

[moonrakerz]

There was an interesting outcome to a dispute over "Legal Tender" several years back in Scotland.

A man was in dispute with his local council and was being chased for a sum of outstanding monies. Eventually he gave in and took along the sum he owed in 10p coins (or something equally silly). The council, after being messed around by him, decided to mess him around - and refused to accept the money, because it was "not legal tender".

It eventually ended up in Court where the Sheriff ruled that the council had to accept anything  - "that was generally accepted to be money".

[johoare]

One of my sons had saved up to buy a Nintendo DS.. At least half of it (^60 or so) was in pound coins. So I would like to praise John Lewis Oxford Street who let him pay using them (I did give them the option not too as I was pretty sure they didn't have to!) :-)

[Chris from Nailsea]

Good for him!

And they were probably glad of the change - if they, too, were only given a ^20 float!

C. 

[readytostart]

Seems I sent things off on a tangent there, myself being an Anglo-in-exile in Scotland have never had any problem using McMoney in England, must just be the Scottish they don't trust!

Anyhoo my point was, there's nothing worse when you're on a busy train trying to serve (rather than interrogate) everyone and despite being able to see the right amount in larger change people insist on scratching around for the smash holding everyone else up! We once had a guard in the old days who would throw coppers out the window if he was given any!

One note to my counterparts at GW^▸ (Great Western), just be thankful you don't still have ^1 notes, or ^100 notes for that matter, we had a guy who was on the first train of the day and would always offer to pay with a hundred knowing it couldn't be changed, unfortunately he got the same guard two days in a row, who on the second day charged him for the day before and promply gave him his change in pound coins that he'd got specially!

I promise most of us are only evil when provoked!

[Btline]

I now always carry my Mastercard Credit Card, which should work everywhere!

[JayMac]

I now always carry my Mastercard Credit Card, which should work everywhere!

Won't get you very far with a XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) trolley service........ 'sorry mate cash only'

[broadgage]

Yes I know this is an old topic.
But it would seem that lack of change is still a problem on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services.

On a recent trip, the catering staff ran out of both ^5 notes and ^1 coins soon after leaving Reading.
Fortunatly I had nearly ^100 on me in ^5 notes and ^1 coins, the Pullman service leader was very glad of this.
In view of the limits on the amount of change available, it might perhaps be helpfull if regular customers keep a small supply of ^5s and ^1s with them.
I try to allways keep at least ^25 in ^5 notes and ^10 in pound coins with me, not just for on train catering but for taxi fares.

[thetrout]

Frome and Trowbridge stations have a habit of running out of 5p coins. As my fare usually has a 5p value in (e.g. Single to Bath @ ^3.05) I will always give them the 5p coin in the monies exchanged if I can