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Btline
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« Reply #60 on: August 20, 2009, 15:03:48 » |
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I ignored the Hereford bit because PFs▸ on LM▸ services out to Hereford are being introduced in September. Of course the poster I read on Hereford Station could've been wrong!
Why are they extending it, when LM operate no trains which don't cross the penalty fare border?  I personally believe that the whole country should become a penalty far zone! |
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JayMac
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« Reply #61 on: August 20, 2009, 15:28:54 » |
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Why are they extending it, when LM▸ operate no trains which don't cross the penalty fare border? Huh, no comprende. "....no trains which don't....." Double negative. |
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"A clear conscience laughs at a false accusation."
"Treat everyone the same until you find out they're an idiot."
"Moral indignation is a technique used to endow the idiot with dignity."
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Btline
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« Reply #62 on: August 20, 2009, 16:14:13 » |
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Why are they extending it, when LM▸ operate no trains which don't cross the penalty fare border? Huh, no comprende. "....no trains which don't....." Double negative. Ok, all LM trains cross the border! So why are they extending it? |
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JayMac
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« Reply #63 on: August 20, 2009, 16:24:23 » |
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I am aware of Penalty Fares trains and Penalty Fares stations, but what is a Penalty Fare border? There's no reference to 'borders' in the legislation.
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"A clear conscience laughs at a false accusation."
"Treat everyone the same until you find out they're an idiot."
"Moral indignation is a technique used to endow the idiot with dignity."
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Btline
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« Reply #64 on: August 20, 2009, 16:29:32 » |
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Worcester is in the zone. Malvern is not. Therefore there is a "border" in between.
All LM▸ trains from Hereford go to Worcester. They therefore cross the "border" into the zone, are penalty fare trains so penalty fares apply throughout.
So why are LM extending the zone?
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inspector_blakey
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« Reply #65 on: August 20, 2009, 19:24:05 » |
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Therefore, someone from Hereford can be penalty fared on a LM▸ service, because although the zone ends at Worcester, the train passes through the area later!
Aaaaaarrrrrghhh! No they can't. Btline, it is not some half-baked poster you may have seen that determines when a penalty fare can be applied. The conditions for PFs▸ are clearly laid out both in an Act of Parliament and the conditions of carriage. To be charged a penalty fare you must have boarded a designated penalty fares train at a designated penalty fares station. End. Of. Story. It sounds like LM might have some posters out there that are badly worded or just plain wrong, assuming your interpretation of them is correct. However, these posters are just produced by some publicitiy department somewhere and do not change the rules. |
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #66 on: August 20, 2009, 19:29:45 » |
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Therefore, someone from Hereford can be penalty fared on a LM▸ service, because although the zone ends at Worcester, the train passes through the area later!
Aaaaaarrrrrghhh! No they can't. Btline, it is not some half-baked poster you may have seen that determines when a penalty fare can be applied. The conditions for PFs▸ are clearly laid out both in an Act of Parliament and the conditions of carriage. To be charged a penalty fare you must have boarded a designated penalty fares train at a designated penalty fares station. End. Of. Story. And if they're extending the zone to include the Malverns, Colwall, Ledbury and Hereford it'll be so that they can legitimately try to deal with the large amount of ticketless travel yoofs that board (especially at Malvern) heading towards Worcester for a day of loafing about. |
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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The Grecian
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« Reply #67 on: August 20, 2009, 20:33:17 » |
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I can't see how anyone could justifying PFing people joining at a non-PF▸ station. On the Exmouth branch-line several stations e.g. Polsloe Bridge have no way whatsoever of buying a ticket before boarding. I think it's fair to say whatever posters might say there is no way FGW▸ could justify PFing people joining there. I'm not sure though that Penalty Zones have ever been applied, but I'm not a regular user.
In Bristol, there have been times in the past where the machine at Filton Abbey Wood was out of order so I wasn't able to buy a ticket beforehand and the guard never came round, so I had to ask for a ticket from the barrier staff. I've never had a problem doing this, including using a YP railcard discount .
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willc
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« Reply #68 on: August 20, 2009, 21:05:21 » |
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I personally believe that the whole country should become a penalty far zone! Bit difficult given the large number of unstaffed stations that have no facilities whatever to buy tickets - or places like Moreton-in-Marsh, where on a busy morning you can queue for 10 or 15 minutes and still not get a ticket. Or should I just not get on the train and get to work an hour or more late? Grecian, the stops on the Exmouth branch are a mixture of penalty and non-penalty, and not surprisingly Polsloe Bridge - once my local station and I don't think I ever saw another passenger on any occasion I used it - ain't one of them. |
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« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 22:50:41 by willc »
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Btline
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« Reply #69 on: August 20, 2009, 23:39:02 » |
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Hartlebury is in a penalty fare zone.
It's just that you can be PFed from that station!
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vacman
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« Reply #70 on: August 20, 2009, 23:43:19 » |
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Hartlebury is in a penalty fare zone.
It's just that you can be PFed from that station!
.............................i can't even be bothered to answer again.............. |
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Btline
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« Reply #71 on: August 20, 2009, 23:48:57 » |
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I'll make it simple:
Look at the map.
Hartlebury is on it.
Therefore it is in the penalty fare zone.
So trains calling are penalty fare trains.
But there are no ticket facilities/ permits here.
So passengers are exempt from p fares.
Understand?
Great malvern is not on the map.
But the trains pass through Worcester and Stourbridge which are on the map.
So trains calling are penalty fare trains.
There are ticket facilities here.
So P fares apply.
THE ABOVE IS WHAT IS MADE CLEAR BY POSTERS AT STATIONS AND ONBOARD THE TRAINS. IF THE ABOVE IS INCORRECT IN ANY WAY, THE POSTERS ARE MISLEADING.
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #72 on: August 20, 2009, 23:54:55 » |
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If I may intercede, here: From the National Rail Enquiries site, at http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/hby/details.html Penalty Fares do not apply when travelling from Hartlebury station.
It doesn't matter whether it is in the penalty fare zone: it's not a penalty fare station. If you board a penalty fare train from a non-penalty fare station, you cannot be penalty fared. Now, Btline, if your understanding of any poster is different, you really should take that up with those who produced such posters. |
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William Huskisson MP▸ was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830. Many more have died in the same way since then. Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.
"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner." Discuss.
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #73 on: August 20, 2009, 23:57:48 » |
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THE ABOVE IS WHAT IS MADE CLEAR BY POSTERS AT STATIONS AND ONBOARD THE TRAINS. IF THE ABOVE IS INCORRECT IN ANY WAY, THE POSTERS ARE MISLEADING.
Only if you misinterpret them. I think you're the only one doing that on this forum? By the way, the LM▸ leaflet on Penalty Fares has a clear disclaimer stating "this leaflet is only intended as a guide and should not be regarded as a complete and authoritative statement of the regulations". Do the posters on trains and stations have a similar disclaimer? |
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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Btline
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« Reply #74 on: August 20, 2009, 23:59:32 » |
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Appranrltly the posters are the same all over the UK▸ . They are clearly not, as people fail to understand my arguments Some people think the maps on the posters show non penalty fare area. Well, the ones in my area don't! So I have no idea. And can you get rid of this thread I give up trying to explain to people.  THE ABOVE IS WHAT IS MADE CLEAR BY POSTERS AT STATIONS AND ONBOARD THE TRAINS. IF THE ABOVE IS INCORRECT IN ANY WAY, THE POSTERS ARE MISLEADING.
Only if you misinterpret them. I think you're the only one doing that on this forum? By the way, the LM▸ leaflet on Penalty Fares has a clear disclaimer stating "this leaflet is only intended as a guide and should not be regarded as a complete and authoritative statement of the regulations". Do the posters on trains and stations have a similar disclaimer? The posters say "if the train passes through the area shown on the map above then you're on a penalty fare train, and penalty fares apply." How am I misunderstanding it? |
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