Why are train companies continueing to rip off the public with train fares?

[whole diary]

[XPT]

I know there are excellent value advance tickets available if you book in advance.   I could for example travel from Bristol-Harwich Parkestone Quay via London Paddington and the tube transfer for just ^14 single.  Which is not to be sniffed at.

But I am talking about the rip-off "walk on" fares available.  Whilst I know that these are allways more expensive than booking well in advance, the average travelling public are being ripped off with over the odds fares.

For example, a walk on Bristol-Birmingham New Street day return is a staggering ^42.10.  Crazy!!   Yet by buying a Bristol-Cheltenham return and a Cheltenham-Birmingham return the fare works out at a much more reasonable ^25.40. And quite a substantial saving.   This is what I do if I ever want to travel to Birmingham.  I certainly am not paying ^42.10!   Sometimes if I have more time to spare I even travel via Worcester Foregate Street, and the fare works out at just ^17.70 return.

And another example.

Bristol-London Paddington.  Walk on day return fare a staggering ^49 return.  Yet by splitting the tickets - Bristol-Didcot Parkway, Didcot Parkway-London Paddington, the fare works out a little cheaper at ^37 return.

So if rail companies such as First Great Western and Arriva Cross Country have fares from A-B and B-C which works out considerably cheaper in total than the A-C fares, why are the A-C fares not priced accordingly?   A passenger asking for a day return from Bristol-Birmingham at a ticket desk or machine should therefore be charged ^25.40, and NOT ^42.10!!!!  Which is getting on for allmost double the price it should be!


There are a lot of average joe public out there who do not know about these "hidden" ways to get more reasonably priced fares, and are paying way over the odds for their travels.   So why are the train companies getting away with this?  Can't the goverment act to put a stop to these practices?

[Btline]

Try this website:

http://www.splitfare.co.uk/

UPDATE: Since ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) are selfish <beep>, the website has been axed, so you have to do it the slow way!

[devon_metro]

I know there are excellent value advance tickets available if you book in advance.   I could for example travel from Bristol-Harwich Parkestone Quay via London Paddington and the tube transfer for just ^14 single.  Which is not to be sniffed at.

But I am talking about the rip-off "walk on" fares available.  Whilst I know that these are allways more expensive than booking well in advance, the average travelling public are being ripped off with over the odds fares.

For example, a walk on Bristol-Birmingham New Street day return is a staggering ^42.10.  Crazy!!   Yet by buying a Bristol-Cheltenham return and a Cheltenham-Birmingham return the fare works out at a much more reasonable ^25.40. And quite a substantial saving.   This is what I do if I ever want to travel to Birmingham.  I certainly am not paying ^42.10!   Sometimes if I have more time to spare I even travel via Worcester Foregate Street, and the fare works out at just ^17.70 return.

And another example.

Bristol-London Paddington.  Walk on day return fare a staggering ^49 return.  Yet by splitting the tickets - Bristol-Didcot Parkway, Didcot Parkway-London Paddington, the fare works out a little cheaper at ^37 return.

So if rail companies such as First Great Western and Arriva Cross Country have fares from A-B and B-C which works out considerably cheaper in total than the A-C fares, why are the A-C fares not priced accordingly?   A passenger asking for a day return from Bristol-Birmingham at a ticket desk or machine should therefore be charged ^25.40, and NOT ^42.10!!!!  Which is getting on for allmost double the price it should be!


There are a lot of average joe public out there who do not know about these "hidden" ways to get more reasonably priced fares, and are paying way over the odds for their travels.   So why are the train companies getting away with this?  Can't the goverment act to put a stop to these practices?

And splitting Didcot will soon allow you to travel on the first off peak train (as aside to the new "super off peak" time at 10.00!!)

[XPT]

Ye it could go in the Fare's Fair section if it would be better there.  But I didn't know whether to post it in there or not, as thought that was more specifically for FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s fares.  I'm talking about fares all over the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) really.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks very much for posting, XPT, and thanks for commenting, Btline!

On balance, I think this topic is better suited here, so I've moved it, while it's in its early stages.  It may expand into wider issues, outside the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) area, in due course, but in the meantime, any discussion about fares is perhaps easiest for our other readers to find here!

C. 

[JayMac]

For example, a walk on Bristol-Birmingham New Street day return is a staggering ^42.10.  Crazy!!   Yet by buying a Bristol-Cheltenham return and a Cheltenham-Birmingham return the fare works out at a much more reasonable ^25.40. And quite a substantial saving.   This is what I do if I ever want to travel to Birmingham.  I certainly am not paying ^42.10!   Sometimes if I have more time to spare I even travel via Worcester Foregate Street, and the fare works out at just ^17.70 return.

And another example.

Bristol-London Paddington.  Walk on day return fare a staggering ^49 return.  Yet by splitting the tickets - Bristol-Didcot Parkway, Didcot Parkway-London Paddington, the fare works out a little cheaper at ^37 return.

If you are going BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)-BHM via WOF cheaper still to split at Bromsgrove. Total of ^15.30 for the two Off Peak Day returns. Just ensure you board a via Bromsgrove LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) service to BHM from WOF and not a via Kidderminster. Added advantage that if you return in the evening peak from BHM you can catch the 1730 or 1830 XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) services to Cardiff and change at Cheltenham Spa. Both these trains call at Bromsgrove and XC's Off Peak Day return afternoon restrictions do not apply to the split tickets. LM set the fare to Bromsgrove and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) set the fare from Bromsgrove to BRI.

And

If you want an even cheaper day return option to London from Bristol, buy a Shirehampton (SHH) to London Waterloo (WAT) route Warminster/Salisbury, Off Peak Day return(CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day'))). ^27.10. Travel may start or end at an intermediate station so starting your journey at BRI on this ticket is permitted. The time restrictions on a CDR from SHH are very ambiguous and I've never had problems using this fare if I travel to WAT on the restrictions applied to a CDR from BRI. That is arrival not before 1000. Another bonus is no evening restrictions on the return. Ideal for 7-8 hours in the capital although 2 hours 45 mins+ each way journey time makes it a very long, if cheap, day out.

[Zoe]

If you think Bristol to London Off Peak fare is expensive try looking at Swindon to London.  This is ^40 soon to be ^48 , the Super Off Peak remains at ^40.  This is for a journey of 1 hour with a frequency of at least 4 trains per hour.  This is not the type of journey I would expect to have to book in advance to travel at a reasonable price.

[devon_metro]

Agreed, however it is the oh so wonderful British Rail that we have to blame for that!

[Btline]

Agreed, however it is the oh so wonderful British Rail that we have to blame for that!

Since BR^▸ (British Rail(ways))/NSE^▸ (Network South East) have gone, isn't it about time we ended these fare anomalies? Worcester's Off Peak Return fare is cheaper than Swindon's! Swindon's should be reduced to around Oxford's fare.

[inspector_blakey]

It's rather simplistic to dismiss the ^49 off-peak return BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) - PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) as "staggering". Whilst I'd certainly baulk at the "anytime" price, ^49 for a journey of that length at that speed seems pretty reasonable to me, especially compared to the bills you would rack up in petrol/parking etc were you driving it.

[JayMac]

It's rather simplistic to dismiss the ^49 off-peak return BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) - PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) as "staggering". Whilst I'd certainly baulk at the "anytime" price, ^49 for a journey of that length at that speed seems pretty reasonable to me, especially compared to the bills you would rack up in petrol/parking etc were you driving it.

Not withstanding it's soon to be ^59. As a non-driver I cannot compare the costs on a like for like basis, however what I baulk at is the 'staggering' 20% increase. Imagine the furore if petrol/diesel increased by 20% overnight on 6th September.

[XPT]

Thanks for those tips Bignosemac.   I thought splitting the tickets at Worcester was the cheapest way, but apparantly not!  Bromsgrove it will be from now on.   

Yes I knew about the route via Salisbury.  Have done it many a time when I couldn't get a cheap enough ticket on the direct route.  I didn't know though if you got a ticket from Shirehampton(instead of Bristol TM^‡(resolve)) it is ^2.80 cheaper!

[moonrakerz]

   A passenger asking for a day return from Bristol-Birmingham at a ticket desk or machine should therefore be charged ^25.40, and NOT ^42.10!!!!  Which is getting on for allmost double the price it should be!

On what basis do you make the statement: "should therefore be charged ^25.40, and NOT ^42.10!!!! " ? Presumeably on the very scientific premise that it is cheaper.
I could equally well make the statement that the "correct" fare should be ^42.10 - which the "bean counters" would probably agree with as well.

There are a lot of average joe public out there who do not know about these "hidden" ways to get more reasonably priced fares, and are paying way over the odds for their travels.   So why are the train companies getting away with this?  Can't the goverment act to put a stop to these practices?

These fares aren't "hidden" that well, plenty of people seem to be able to find them !

The problem I have with calling for the "government" to act, is that this is far more likely to cause the removal of the cheap advance tickets and the loss of the ability to "split", than a decrease in fares generally. It would not take someone very long to enact these two !

The cheap tickets are aimed at getting people to travel on the off peak (less crowded) trains or to entice people out of their cars. I have spent much of this so called "summer" travelling around by train at some very cheap prices. I had a very pleasant day at Paignton Zoo - the car park ticket at Westbury cost me more than my train ticket !  I am not naive enough to demand that these cheap fares become the norm.

The railways are now very similar to the airlines - no two passengers paying the same fare. This is hardly a valid case for saying that the "correct" fare to Alicante is 99p !
There are lots of anomolies in the fares structure, don't complain about them - use them ..................or lose them !

[XPT]

   A passenger asking for a day return from Bristol-Birmingham at a ticket desk or machine should therefore be charged ^25.40, and NOT ^42.10!!!!  Which is getting on for allmost double the price it should be!

On what basis do you make the statement: "should therefore be charged ^25.40, and NOT ^42.10!!!! " ? Presumeably on the very scientific premise that it is cheaper.
I could equally well make the statement that the "correct" fare should be ^42.10 - which the "bean counters" would probably agree with as well.

If the total cost of fares from Bristol-Cheltenham and Cheltenham-Birmingham works out at ^25.40, then the Bristol-Birmingham return fare SHOULD be ^25.40 and NOT ^42.10.   ^42.10 is absolute daylight robbery for such a short journey, there's no doubt about it.   Train companies are cashing in on popular journeys, and it should NOT be allowed.  Yes of course they need to make a profit, but ripping passengers off by hiking up the prices of journeys should not be allowed.   People who are unaware of split ticketing are paying way over the odds for their journeys.  For example passengers shouldn't be paying ^42.10 for a return journey to Birmingham, they should be paying ^25.40.

To me, if I was quoted a fare of ^42.10 for a Bristol-Birmgingham return, it would be absolute NO NO for me.  Ridiculously overpriced.  Yet ^25.40 is OK and I'd be content to pay that sort of money for a journey of that length(in terms of how far it is).   

Perhaps you can answer this question for me Moonrakerz.  If a Bristol-Cheltenham, and Cheltenham-Birmingham return works out in total as ^25.40.  Can you give any good valid reasons as to why then do Arriva Cross Country charge ^42.10 for a Bristol-Birmingham return???



When I emailed Cross Country this query a few months back.   Allthough they did say that split ticketing is OK, they failed to answer my query as to why Bristol-Birmingham is priced so much more than the total price of Bristol-Cheltenham, and Cheltenham-Birmingham fares.  Similarly when I emailed FGW^▸ (First Great Western) a similar query, I got a babble of a reply back which didn't really answer my query.

The sooner the government or DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) or whoever acts on this the better. 

[XPT]

Another example of ridiculously over-priced fares.

I was at Temple Meads last week collecting my pre-booked tickets.  There was a young lady in front of me, and I saw on the screen that she was getting a return to Sheffield.  The cheapest option at that time(before 8am) was a staggering ^135 Anytime Return!!!!  To which she did actually select and pay.   If she had booked in advance she could have got it considerably cheaper, probably cheaper still if she split the tickets Bristol-Cheltenham, Cheltenham-Birmingham, Birmingham-Sheffield.   However, even not booking in advance the total cost of a Bristol-Sheffield day return leaving Bristol at 8am can work out at around ^75.   Which isn't exactly fantastic value, but it's a hell of a lot cheaper than the Bristol-Sheffield return.  So the Bristol-Sheffield PEAK "walk on" fare should be priced accordingly at (approx) ^75 and not ^135.  Passengers should not be paying over the odds for journeys when it is not necessary.

When I last came back from Birmingham to Bristol(on the direct route), when the ticket inspector came round instead of me just giving in my Birmingham-Cheltenham ticket, I gave in both my Birmingham-Cheltenham and Cheltenham-Bristol ticket.  She gave me a bit of dissaproving look!  Train companies don't want passengers to know about these ways of getting cheaper fares see!

I think the next time I travel to Birmingham at short notice, instead of getting the tickets from the machine.  I will go into the ticket desk and ask for a Bristol-Cheltenham(or maybe Bromsgrove for the even cheaper but longer way round) day return, and a Cheltenham(or Bromsgrove)-Birmingham return.  And see how they react!  Of course if I asked for just a day return to Birmingham, they'd say "That'll be ^42.10 please!".