HS2 - Government proposals, alternative routes and general discussion

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

The final route (pending public enquiry) has been announced today in what must have been a very busy day for Philip Hammond!  Squeals of 'burying bad news in the snow' predictably made by opponents!

A few minor amendments to the structures on the original Adonis announced route, but nothing like what the opposers of the scheme were looking for - mind you it would be impossible to to please them without shelving the scheme. http://stophs2.org/

The speech:  http://railwayeye.blogspot.com/2010/12/hammond-statement-on-hs2.html

The supporting documents:  http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/highspeedrail/proposedroute/

Interview with Philip Hammond at a chilly Willesden Juntion High Level:  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/8214840/Phil-Hammond-we-have-to-invest-in-Britains-railways.html

Local newspaper article: http://www.uxbridgegazette.co.uk/west-london-news/local-uxbridge-news/2010/12/20/government-backs-high-speed-rail-line-through-ruislip-113046-27858228/

Again, despite peddling alternative proposals when they were in opposition, the ConLib coalition find themselves sticking, in the most part, to what the Labour government announced.  Especially significant is dropping of the old Tory idea of a separate station for Heathrow Airport, with them now favouring a spur to Heathrow in phase 2 of the project when it's extended to Leeds/Manchester.  I actually can't see that happening anyway, as I think it won't provide value for money and the interchange onto Crossrail at Old Oak Common's station will be the best way to continue.  We'll only have to wait until I'm drawing my pension to find out if I'm right - he says still clinging on to his 30's!   

[JayMac]

Would've been nice if the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) could've put all those documents into one or two .zip files. Or offered them on CD^▸ (Capital Delivery)-Rom like the last lot were back in March. Gonna take me an age to download and collate......

[paul7575]

Would've been nice if the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) could've put all those documents into one or two .zip files. Or offered them on CD^▸ (Capital Delivery)-Rom like the last lot were back in March. Gonna take me an age to download and collate......

I've been looking at a few of the maps, what they've done is labelled the changed areas with a few words of description. 

But one of the main docs I clicked on seemed to be a 123 Mb download,    presumably that's to stop people with slow dial up connections in the Chiltern countryside finding out what's going on... 

Paul

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Chancellor George Osborne has announced that thousands of jobs will be created by a new high-speed rail link between Birmingham and London.

He told BBC WM the link would "secure the Midlands' future for the next generation" and create 8,000 jobs.

He said about 4,500 jobs would be created at Curzon Park in Birmingham's Eastside regeneration area where the line would terminate.

HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) will start at a redeveloped Euston station in central London.

The chancellor visited Curzon Park on Thursday to inspect part of the route.

He said the new terminal would "completely regenerate the area" and connect Birmingham with cities in the north and south of England as well as with the rest of Europe through the Channel Tunnel.

"When I think what the site looks like now, that is going to be a real transformation for the east of Birmingham," he said.

He added people who would be affected by its construction, including those living in Northamptonshire, Warwickshire, Staffordshire and Buckinghamshire and Oxfordshire would be compensated.

[woody]

Funny how the government can easily commit itself to HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) to "secure the Midlands' future for the next generation"  while Great Western still awaits a decision on basics like the extent of any future electrification.Some parts of the Great Western franchise are in danger of merely getting a like for like HST^▸ (High Speed Train) replacement rather than a real service upgrade like the the East and West Coast main lines have already received.                                                                                                                               
Sad really given the vast amounts of public money that gone to waste in recent times on our fractured and faulted rail structure something Sir Roy McNulty^s value for money review and the governments consultation on the future of rail franchising policy will no doubt tackle.

[JayMac]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

High-speed rail campaigners gather for national meeting

Hundreds of campaigners against the planned high-speed rail line (HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s))) are staging a national convention ahead of government consultation. The ^33bn rail link would cut journey times between London and Birmingham, but campaigners said the scheme was not environmentally and economically sound. More than 500 people are at Stoneleigh Park in Warwickshire for the event organised by protest group Stop HS2.

A six-month consultation process is expected to start next month.

The line would start at a redeveloped Euston station in central London and terminate at a new station at Curzon Street/Fazeley Street in Birmingham's Eastside regeneration area. HS2 would join the West Coast Main Line near Lichfield.

'Not valid'

Some residents in Northamptonshire, Warwickshire, Buckinghamshire and Staffordshire are against the scheme and several councils along the route have already voted to oppose the plans.

Chancellor George Osborne said last month that 8,000 jobs would be created as part of the plans.

Speaking to BBC News, former transport secretary Lord Adonis, who introduced the plans last year when the previous Labour government was in power, said campaigners' suggestions it would be better to invest in the West Coast mainline instead were not valid.

"I'm afraid none of those objections are valid, though of course I completely understand why those people who live on the line of the route are objecting," he said. "It always happens when you have infrastructure projects, that those who live near where they're being proposed object vigorously and, of course, what they do is to try and draw in wider arguments. But virtually the whole of the developed world is now going ahead with high speed rail because it's the green solution to providing fast, high capacity connections between cities."

But Lizzy Williams, chairman of the Stop HS2 organisation, said the route would only benefit London and there was no economic or environmental case for it.

"The business case (for HS2) does not promise economic growth that will benefit the country," she said. "It is London who will be the winner overall. What about Wales, what about the South West, what about the rural economies? It relies on laughable passenger forecasts and takes no account of the changing world we live in."

Route amended

The planned 250mph route aims to cut journey times between London and Birmingham to 49 minutes. There are also plans to extend the link to Manchester and Leeds.

The former Labour government first announced the proposals last March and they were later backed by the coalition government. The Conservatives and Liberal Democrats have said that, given financial constraints, the scheme would have to be introduced in phases.

A ^50m compensation fund has also been set up by the government for home-owners and firms "severely" affected by the route.

Rail enthusiast and pop mogul Pete Waterman, who is in favour of the plans, told BBC News it would free up other trains and passengers would see a cut in ticket prices as first class passengers switched to the faster trains.

He said he felt campaigners were being very clever about side-stepping the "not in my backyard argument".

"They're doing everything to not make that sort of statement," he said. "They're going on about economics (and) the environment but really, with railways you can make as much a game for it as against it. But at the end of the day, HS2 is, for me, do we want the country to go forward or don't we?"

In December, Transport Secretary Philip Hammond said 50% of the preferred route published in March had been amended following protests about its impact on homes and the countryside.

Jerry Marshall, chairman of the federation of action groups against the plans, said the route goes through his home but decided he would support the plans if they were in the national interest.

"As a businessman, I spent a couple of days going through the business case and I was shocked at what I found," he said. "There's a lot of wool being pulled over our eyes and the case does not stack up. If Phillip Hammond took this to Dragon's Den, he would be eaten alive."

The meeting at Stoneleigh has been discussing the arguments for and against the plans and hearing from guest speakers, organisers said.

[anthony215]

Some of these people in my opinion are idiots.  personally i think it is great that the governemnt are even planning to build a high speed domestic line in the uk.

It is need actually to take pressure off the west coast mainline and to provide additional capacity.

 This is also expected to provide a lot of job which is good

[JayMac]

From the Oxford Mail:

Building a London to Birmingham high-speed railway line will make it easier to provide a train service between Oxford, Bicester and Milton Keynes, according to a new report.

Removing long-distance expresses from the West Coast main line through Milton Keynes would free capacity there, making it easier to operate trains from Oxford into the Buckinghamshire town^s Central station, said Greengauge 21, a group set up to campaign for high-speed lines.

Milton Keynes Central is three miles north of Bletchley, the junction station where the mothballed route from Bicester joins the busy main line and the line to Bedford, which would also form part of the East West Rail project.

A new high-speed line ^ called HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) ^ which would cut across the north-east corner of Oxfordshire near Finmere and Mixbury, is a key part of the Government^s transport strategy but is bitterly opposed by some groups as the proposed route passes through the Chiltern Hills and is not seen as offering value for money.

Greengauge 21 director Jim Steer said yesterday: ^Services which simply cannot be fitted on today^s network will become viable once HS2 is built.

^Non-stop inter-city services from the North of England and the Midlands to London will transfer to HS2, making space on the West Coast main line for more freight on rail and more local passenger services.

^So, East West Rail ^ the project long sought-after between Oxford and Milton Keynes ^ becomes possible.^

Passenger trains last ran between Oxford and Bletchley in 1967. Freight services continued until the early 1990s but the line has been mothballed since then between Bletchley and Claydon Junction, east of Bicester.

The full Greenguage 21 report can be found here:

http://www.greengauge21.net/wp-content/uploads/Capturing-the-benefits-update.pdf

East-West is mentioned on pages 20 & 21 of the the report.

[anthony215]

If I remeber  from the plans they  were looking at running a service from Miltom keynes to Reading although if paths could be found how about running instead to swindon, Maybe if the Go-Co proposal comes off do a joint service with them or something

[paul7575]

A franchised TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) cannot run a joint service with an open access operator.

The short history of Chiltern/WSMR^▸ (Wrexham, Shropshire and Marylebone Railway) 'co-operation' shows it is a minefield, there is ample evidence on the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) website.

Paul

[paul7575]

Would've been nice if the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) could've put all those documents into one or two .zip files. Or offered them on CD^▸ (Capital Delivery)-Rom like the last lot were back in March. Gonna take me an age to download and collate......

Has anyone noticed that the massive 123 Mb file (whatever it was) that was there on 20th December has disappeared?  I've emailed DfT asking what it was all about and where has it gone, but been fobbed off with a link to some 5 page summary or other.

I think it was a whole new updated report, but I never downloaded it...

Anyone got any ideas what was in it?

Paul

[ChrisB]

Maybe if the Go-Co proposal comes off

Is this still a goer? Has anyone heard anything recently?

[grahame]

Maybe if the Go-Co proposal comes off

Is this still a goer? Has anyone heard anything recently?

http://www.goco.coop/train/

... current as at 20th January (verified by a member of the Goco team at a public meeting in Swindon). See http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=6509.75

[Chris from Nailsea]

A video news report, from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Hammond: 'We'll win over high-speed rail critics'

The Transport Secretary, Philip Hammond, says he believes he can change the opinions of those who oppose England's proposed high-speed rail link.

The government will next week launch a consultation into the proposed link between London and Birmingham but the scheme has attracted fierce opposition from people who live close to its planned route.

[johoare]

I travelled to Milton Keynes and back on Friday (back roads not motorway) from Maidenhead.. I saw several signs on my journey indicating where the new train line would be crossing the roads I was on.. It did make me realise what an impact it would have locally...Although I do realise it won't literally cross over each road all the time...there will be bridges and tunnels (I hope)