HS2 - Government proposals, alternative routes and general discussion

[whole diary]

[RailCornwall]

Wednesday should see the announcement of the preferred route option for HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) to the Midlands and options further North, press speculation seems to suggest a new Terminus in London effectively combining Euston, the new HS^▸ (High Speed (short for HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) High Speed Services)) station and Kings Cross St Pancras as the southern end.

[Btline]

Wednesday should see the announcement of the preferred route option for HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) to the Midlands and options further North, press speculation seems to suggest a new Terminus in London effectively combining Euston, the new HS^▸ (High Speed (short for HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) High Speed Services)) station and Kings Cross St Pancras as the southern end.

Um, a station linking Euston, Kings Cross and St Pancras?

Where will they fit that in? And it's congested underground anyway! Surely the best option is to extend the Backerloo and Crossrail lines to get rid of most LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) stoppers into Euston. Then add a few more platforms, giving the space required for the TGVs^▸ (Train a Grande Vitesse).

Of course, if the planners at St Pancras had been competent, we could have had spac there.

[paul7575]

Wednesday should see the announcement of the preferred route option for HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) to the Midlands and options further North, press speculation seems to suggest a new Terminus in London effectively combining Euston, the new HS^▸ (High Speed (short for HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) High Speed Services)) station and Kings Cross St Pancras as the southern end.

Wednesday is the day the report is passed to the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about), AFAICT^▸ (as far as I can tell). The announcement won't happen until Labour need a fillip in the electioneering process, I reckon - so I'd expect it to be announced formally just before before the pre-election embargo on major policy statements. 

The press speculation this week is just that...

Paul

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

High-speed rail plans to be submitted to government

A major new station in the heart of London will be part of plans for a north-south high-speed rail line to be submitted to the government this week.

The first stage of the 250mph new line - from the capital to the West Midlands - could open by 2025.

The station would cater for up to 18 trains and 20,000 passengers an hour.

The proposal is in a report by the High Speed Two (HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s))) company which has been set up by ministers to identify a viable route for the new line.

HS2 will put forward options for possible connections to Heathrow Airport and to the Channel Tunnel rail link, known as High Speed One (HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel)).
 
The company says it has looked at 35 potential sites for a new station in London, but has plumped for one right in the heart of the capital.

There will be detailed proposals for the route of the line between London and the West Midlands - accurate to within 18 inches - and more general plans for its extension beyond that to Scotland.

A range of costs will be included for construction of the line which could start by 2017.

HS2 chief executive Alison Munro said it was asked to look at linking the line with the cross-London Crossrail project, the Great Western main line and Heathrow. "The report will set out a case for various options including a possible link with HS1," she said. "The proposals will include running trains from the HS2 on to the West Coast Main Line. This will not be a transport project in isolation. The final report will look at how the line will help housing and regional economic development. There will be significant levels of detail."

If the government decides to go ahead with high-speed rail it will publish a White Paper by next April.

The document would set out details such as route proposals, timescales and associated financial, economic and environmental assessments.

[FlyingDutchman]

If they built a New High Speed Route to Plymouth, I would think it would have to be via Bristol.

Due to the Canal next door to the railway line between  Pewsey and Reading.

I think Planning new lines go down

Population.
Cost
Benifit.

[Btline]

If they built a New High Speed Route to Plymouth...

They won't.

[Lee]

From the Department for Transport:

Adonis: 2010 will be the 'Year of High Speed Rail'

Transport Secretary Andrew Adonis has predicted 2010 will be the year of high-speed rail in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) on the day he received what could prove to be a landmark report for the future of transport in this country.

High Speed Two - the company set up to advise the Government on the development of high-speed rail services between London and Scotland - delivers its highly-anticipated report today. The study is the most detailed examination ever undertaken of how to take forward high-speed rail in Britain.

Andrew Adonis said:

"This is an important report which will shape the future of high-speed rail in this country.

"High-speed rail has real potential to regenerate and reinvigorate. Our high-speed network lags behind that of many of our European neighbours and doesn't connect any of our major cities, but this report could change that.

^I am excited about the possibilities that high-speed rail has to transform transport in this country for the better, providing environmental benefits, encouraging investment and boosting business and jobs.

"Scrutiny of the report will begin immediately and we will announce how we plan to take high speed rail forward by the end of March - making 2010 the year of high speed rail in the UK."

The report from High Speed Two (HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s))) presents a detailed route plan for the first stage of a north-south high-speed line, from London to the West Midlands, as well as options for extending high-speed services, and high speed lines, to destinations further north, including the North West, the East Midlands, Yorkshire, the North East and Scotland.

If the Government decides to pursue proposals for high-speed rail, it will publish a white paper by the end of March 2010. The white paper will set out detailed plans for new high-speed rail lines and services, including route proposals, timescales and associated financial, economic, and environmental assessments. This would be followed by a full public consultation starting in the Autumn of 2010, giving all interested parties an opportunity to comment before the proposals are finalised.

Notes to editors

The Government will not publish the HS2 report in advance of the Government^s response, as to do so would cause unnecessary blight in respect of options identified but not taken forward. The HS2 report will be published alongside the Government response.

HS2's business case will be supported by technical assessments, including demand forecasts and an assessment of the potential for shifting journeys to high-speed rail from air and road.  For the route between London and the West Midlands, HS2^s report will include: design specifications; environmental assessments; and, costs, funding and delivery structures.

[Btline]

A HSL just to the West Mids is a waste of time. You might as well spend half the money 6 tracking the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) to Rugby (providing similar journey time reductions to Birmingham, but also shaving time off ALL routes on the WCML), with links put in at Wembley to Heathrow and HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel).

Then use the money saved on a similar scheme for the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line), 2 new tracks to Reading, link to Heathrow, etc.

[IndustryInsider]

You might as well spend half the money 6 tracking the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) to Rugby

I've asked a similar question before regarding the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line), but where would the fifth and sixth track go? There's no space for the majority of the route - Watford and Kilsby Tunnels are a couple of the more obvious of many barriers.

[JayMac]

Am I alone in being a little pessimistic for what the future holds for 'UK^▸ (United Kingdom) Rail'? There are a whole raft of aspirational network improvements out there, but I worry that a (likely) change of Government will put the ky-bosh on most, if not all, of the large projects. I cannot see where the money is going to come from. Govt. purse strings are likely to be tightened severely and private capital, with the entailing financial risk, is very unlikely to be forthcoming.

I fear another period of make-do and mend, rather than any great leaps forward.

[Btline]

Flyovers and tunnels. And the new tracks wouldn't have to stick to the rest of the route, as trains using the express tracks would not be stopping before Reading.

[devon_metro]

Am I alone in being a little pessimistic for what the future holds for 'UK^▸ (United Kingdom) Rail'? There are a whole raft of aspirational network improvements out there, but I worry that a (likely) change of Government will put the ky-bosh on most, if not all, of the large projects. I cannot see where the money is going to come from. Govt. purse strings are likely to be tightened severely and private capital, with the entailing financial risk, is very unlikely to be forthcoming.

I fear another period of make-do and mend, rather than any great leaps forward.

Regardless of the future government I very much doubt we will see any major rail investment as being announced. To do so would be economically unsustainable in the short term and getting out of debt is the biggest concern.

[Electric train]

A HSL just to the West Mids is a waste of time. You might as well spend half the money 6 tracking the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) to Rugby (providing similar journey time reductions to Birmingham, but also shaving time off ALL routes on the WCML), with links put in at Wembley to Heathrow and HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel).

Then use the money saved on a similar scheme for the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line), 2 new tracks to Reading, link to Heathrow, etc.

Why phaf about trying to follow the old alignments that are often a result of Victorian land owner NIMBYisum the WCLM is rife with kinks due to this.  The new high speed routes are strategic they will run hub to hub with some services branching off to key destinations which is how the TGV^▸ (Train a Grande Vitesse) routes and airlines operate

[caliwag]

Regardless of funding, the green issue and the strange notion of keeping up with Europe (far bigger distances and apparently no discernable nimby factor), I cannot see, by the time this lot is up and running...say 2020, where are 18000 people an hour going to come from that want to travel from London to "the North"?

Trains will be there for tourists, ageing parents, students, pass holders and a few misguided business people who cling to the face-to-face meet and a wee jolly. Everything will be so much more direct...computer based...mobile phone technology is changing so rapidly, more than most can imagine, so the notion that a 90minute and more train journey is important (with all the inevitable perterbations) is complete and utter nonsense.

Sorry these are the facts (Chiltern peeps, you can quote me)...Forget HS^▸ (High Speed (short for HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) High Speed Services)) in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)...Spain did it because in post-Franco years they felt they needed to catch up...and they did...I can only assume that the EU^» (European Union - about) payed for it. (oddly enough the East Coast Main Line electrification had a serious contribution from the EU)

So, lets just upgrade what we have...a damn successful railway, dedicated people, with damn successful 125s (retentive tanks notwithstanding)...and rejoice.

BTW^▸ (by the way)...to BT...as regards Nat XP...I rest my case, but I have a lot of time for First...FGW^▸ (First Great Western), Trans-Pennine, and er York buses...excellent to my mind...except the Purple ones!

[grahame]

[snip]

So, lets just upgrade what we have...a damn successful railway, dedicated people, with damn successful 125s (retentive tanks notwithstanding)...and rejoice.

I like to prepare blog articles well ahead ... and I wrote one in 2007, for publication in 2032 and it tells you what will have become of the 125s by that time.    Like a sneak preview, 22 years ahead? - http://www.wellho.net/mouth/1729_.html?pwidth=wide