HS2 - Government proposals, alternative routes and general discussion

[whole diary]

[grahame]

What real difference would a short DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) running a handful of services a day through to Waterloo actually make in the grand scheme of things?  Not much I would suspect.

Indeed - but then an hourly through service all stations Bristol Temple Meads to Salisbury ... and onwards all stations to Basigntoke, Farnbourough, Woking, Clapham Junction and Waterloo ... would make a difference.   

"Where would the trains and crews come from?".   Well - the Bristol to Westbury is already there. In many hours that extends to Salisbury already, and in many of those it doesn't it carries on to Salisbury.   Salisbury to Waterloo is already there.  So it's a bit of joining up that's needed and NOT a handful of (extra) services that need to be found from somewhere.

I do accept that at times that the line into Paddington is not available, but Westbury IS, the though Bristol to London (Waterloo) service would be distinctly busy.   I'm not sure where we're going with 158s, 159s, 165s, 166s and 175s next year - but it's not beyond imagination to suggest that 158s could be replaced on Cardiff - Exeter services by IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) not headed to London on those days, with the 158s used to make the Bristol - Salisbury services up to 5 carriages, with 8 onwards to Waterloo.

[Mark A]

What real difference would a short DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) running a handful of services a day through to Waterloo actually make in the grand scheme of things?  Not much I would suspect.

Thinking of passenger flows + an Old Oak Common blockade, if people did take to a Waterloo - Bristol route in numbers, that's a good point. From the passenger's point of view, unless swamped, it's an opportunity to provide a functional and more accessible alternative though.

The other qualities offered by the route are for another (extant and already well-filled) thread though. If it had not been for the pandemic, they'd still be in the timetable and we'd be grumbling about the Salisbury-Trowbridge blockade suspending them for much of January.

Mark

PS Seasons greetings, all.

[IndustryInsider]

I think hourly 9/10-car IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) diversions into Waterloo, in addition to the Euston ones, would make more sense but were ruled out, this Christmas at least, for a few reasons.   As well as the Westbury blockade there's nothing running between Woking and Basingstoke until 5th January so diversions from Exeter via Yeovil/Salisbury weren't possible.

[PhilWakely]

I think hourly 9/10-car IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) diversions into Waterloo, in addition to the Euston ones, would make more sense but were ruled out, this Christmas at least, for a few reasons.   As well as the Westbury blockade there's nothing running between Woking and Basingstoke until 5th January so diversions from Exeter via Yeovil/Salisbury weren't possible.

I presume that diverting into Waterloo via Kensington Olympia and Clapham Junction was ruled out early?

[ChrisB]

Added 75mins and a reversal

[TaplowGreen]

Another roasting for HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) from the Public Accounts Committee........

https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/civils/hs2/hs2-civils-contracts-slammed-as-extremely-poor-value-for-money-28-02-2025/

[eightonedee]

Well - hopefully both the PAC and vast number of UK^▸ (United Kingdom)-knockers might take some comfort from this take from DW (Germany's answer to BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlDChSmyf-0

Seems like it's a universal problem!

[TonyK]

Well - hopefully both the PAC and vast number of UK^▸ (United Kingdom)-knockers might take some comfort from this take from DW (Germany's answer to BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlDChSmyf-0

Seems like it's a universal problem!

Even that's a little simplistic. Yes, the USA laid 2000 miles of track in the 1860s, but they don't have quite the same supply of cheap labour as back then from Ireland and China. Nor do we have the human power available to Brunel back in the olden days. As to "doomed" - depends on which bit of HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) you mean.

[Mark A]

Bluesky post from an MP^▸ (Member of Parliament), an update on Old Oak Common services.

"After much lobbying from @libdems.org.uk MPs, I am glad to confirm Great Western Railway trains travelling from the South West to London Paddington will not stop at Old Oak Common as standard - as had been proposed - and that there will be an additional 26 trains added to the fleet."

Mark

https://bsky.app/profile/claireyoungmp.bsky.social/post/3lkgyydpypk26

[ChrisB]

Then either none do & the current timetable would still work on the main lines, OR this will mean that there will be fewer paths available per hour as some stop (so the more 'locals' - Cotswolds, Bristol (poss not, as XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) direct would be quicker than via OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot))), Cardiffs, WSMs) while others don't....

[grahame]

Bluesky post from an MP^▸ (Member of Parliament), an update on Old Oak Common services.

"After much lobbying from @libdems.org.uk MPs, I am glad to confirm Great Western Railway trains travelling from the South West to London Paddington will not stop at Old Oak Common as standard - as had been proposed - and that there will be an additional 26 trains added to the fleet."

Mark

Claire Young is MP for Thornbury and Yate, in a constituency which includes a section of the main London to South Wales line on it with a single station which at present does not have a regular scheduled local service to London, being served by only by trains from Cardiff running to and through Bristol toward the West Country - indeed as far as Penzance.

Are the 26 trains mentioned a fresh announcement or are they the class 175 units which will be very welcome.  The use of the word "additional" suggests to me a net fleet growth, but other reports including from GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) suggest that some of the trains in this transfer are not additional but rather as replacement for other trains being withdrawn.

[stuving]

Then either none do & the current timetable would still work on the main lines, OR this will mean that there will be fewer paths available per hour as some stop (so the more 'locals' - Cotswolds, Bristol (poss not, as XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) direct would be quicker than via OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot))), Cardiffs, WSMs) while others don't....

Or else it is a very easy promise to make, since by the time Old Oak Common station opens there won't be any Great Western Railway. And as an operational timetabling matter, I would doubt any promise so far into the future, even from the provisional GBR^▸ (Great British Railways), was worth much.

[Western Pathfinder]

 Requiring of a rather hefty pinch of salt thinks me.

[ChrisB]

Claire Young is MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) for Thornbury and Yate, in a constituency which includes a section of the main London to South Wales line on it with a single station which at present does not have a regular scheduled local service to London, being served by only by trains from Cardiff running to and through Bristol toward the West Country - indeed as far as Penzance.

Are the 26 trains mentioned a fresh announcement or are they the class 175 units which will be very welcome.

Is Claire the LibDem Transport spokesman? That would explain why it was her that mentioned these?
I reckon it's the 175s (correct number of units).

[grahame]

Claire Young is MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) for Thornbury and Yate, in a constituency which includes a section of the main London to South Wales line on it with a single station which at present does not have a regular scheduled local service to London, being served by only by trains from Cardiff running to and through Bristol toward the West Country - indeed as far as Penzance.

Are the 26 trains mentioned a fresh announcement or are they the class 175 units which will be very welcome.

Is Claire the LibDem Transport spokesman? That would explain why it was her that mentioned these?
I reckon it's the 175s (correct number of units).

Paul Kohler - MP for Wimbledon - in the Commons
Baroness Pidgeon - in the Lords