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ellendune
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« Reply #1365 on: March 27, 2023, 10:13:32 » |
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Or to put it another way: https://twitter.com/NAOorguk/status/1640269953763794944?s=20Our report finds that the 10-platform #HS2▸ Euston design would cost £4.8bn; more expensive than the original 11-platform design, and £2.2bn over the available budget.
Government needs to develop a design that's affordable, deliverable, & value for money. So changing the design wrote of £100M of design work and ended up with a more expensive design. So lets throw some more design work away and try again? Gareth Dennis comments on Twitter here and here: Oakervee has a lot to answer for, essentially. The design should never have been changed, and if it hadn't, we'd be seeing trains running into Euston high speed station within three years. My view on pulling everything back together? There are one too many primary stakeholders influencing design:
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #1366 on: April 20, 2023, 06:37:58 » |
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PhilWakely
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« Reply #1367 on: April 20, 2023, 07:59:23 » |
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As a result, the major (and probably only!) benefit of HS2▸ - a faster journey into central London - is immediately nullified by 'change at Old Oak Common for central London'! |
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Electric train
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« Reply #1368 on: April 20, 2023, 09:04:52 » |
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As a result, the major (and probably only!) benefit of HS2▸ - a faster journey into central London - is immediately nullified by 'change at Old Oak Common for central London'! I have always believed that many of the HS2 passengers will chose to change at Old Oak Common, the connectivity of the Elizabeth Line to the West End, City, Docklands, Heathrow, even Gatwick with a change at Farringdon will make this a more attractive option than the Tube at Euston. The late opening of Euston will set the pattern of HS2 users as they will become accustomed to using Old Oak Common. The other aspect of HS2 future are the General Elections over the next 10 or so years, the political landscape could change, drastically |
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Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
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ChrisB
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« Reply #1369 on: April 20, 2023, 09:21:17 » |
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As a result, the major (and probably only!) benefit of HS2▸ - a faster journey into central London - is immediately nullified by 'change at Old Oak Common for central London'! Sorry, but the purpose of HS2 is, andalways has been, additional capacity - removing freight & the fastest trains from the WCML▸ in order to fit further, slower, services on the WCML & faster sevices on HS2. This is still the case. Sod all to do with faster services to Birmingham |
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #1370 on: April 20, 2023, 10:34:05 » |
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As a result, the major (and probably only!) benefit of HS2▸ - a faster journey into central London - is immediately nullified by 'change at Old Oak Common for central London'! Sorry, but the purpose of HS2 is, andalways has been, additional capacity - removing freight & the fastest trains from the WCML▸ in order to fit further, slower, services on the WCML & faster sevices on HS2. This is still the case. Sod all to do with faster services to Birmingham If that's the case it's probably fortunate from a marketing perspective, as attempting to persuade customers to switch to HS2 at a premium fare to be deposited in the West London suburbs for the first 10 years of its existence as opposed to a service which is slightly slower but still takes you straight into Central London would be a pretty difficult sell. |
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« Reply #1371 on: April 20, 2023, 11:52:03 » |
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As a result, the major (and probably only!) benefit of HS2▸ - a faster journey into central London - is immediately nullified by 'change at Old Oak Common for central London'! Sorry, but the purpose of HS2 is, andalways has been, additional capacity - removing freight & the fastest trains from the WCML▸ in order to fit further, slower, services on the WCML & faster sevices on HS2. This is still the case. Sod all to do with faster services to Birmingham If that's the case it's probably fortunate from a marketing perspective, as attempting to persuade customers to switch to HS2 at a premium fare to be deposited in the West London suburbs for the first 10 years of its existence as opposed to a service which is slightly slower but still takes you straight into Central London would be a pretty difficult sell. It's unlikly passenger North of Brum will have any choice but to use HS2. Services from Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow etc will predominantly use HS2, its the only way to free up capacity on the WCML |
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Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
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grahame
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« Reply #1372 on: April 20, 2023, 13:35:37 » |
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It's unlikly passenger North of Brum will have any choice but to use HS2▸ . Services from Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow etc will predominantly use HS2, its the only way to free up capacity on the WCML▸
That figures - like passenger from Bristol, Bath, Bradford-on-Avon and Trowbridge only have direct trains to Paddington to the north west of the centre of London now - no longer the option of getting in to Waterloo. Dangerous precedent there! Sorry - couldn't resist the opportunity to make the point! |
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Coffee Shop Admin, Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, TravelWatch SouthWest Board Member
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #1373 on: April 20, 2023, 16:46:39 » |
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It's unlikly passenger North of Brum will have any choice but to use HS2▸ . Services from Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow etc will predominantly use HS2, its the only way to free up capacity on the WCML▸
That figures - like passenger from Bristol, Bath, Bradford-on-Avon and Trowbridge only have direct trains to Paddington to the north west of the centre of London now - no longer the option of getting in to Waterloo. Dangerous precedent there! Sorry - couldn't resist the opportunity to make the point!Don't worry Graham - it's to be reinstated as part of HS9.......no later than 2150  |
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« Reply #1374 on: April 20, 2023, 18:14:05 » |
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It's unlikly passenger North of Brum will have any choice but to use HS2▸ . Services from Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow etc will predominantly use HS2, its the only way to free up capacity on the WCML▸
That figures - like passenger from Bristol, Bath, Bradford-on-Avon and Trowbridge only have direct trains to Paddington to the north west of the centre of London now - no longer the option of getting in to Waterloo. Dangerous precedent there! Sorry - couldn't resist the opportunity to make the point!They will have the opportunity to catch the slow(er) train ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0bfRvfW3WA  ) at Brum, although there are not many of the trains north of Crewe that stop south of Crewe |
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Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
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Trowres
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« Reply #1375 on: April 21, 2023, 00:39:36 » |
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Sorry, but the purpose of HS2▸ is, and always has been, additional capacity - removing freight & the fastest trains from the WCML▸ in order to fit further, slower, services on the WCML & faster sevices on HS2. This is still the case. Sod all to do with faster services to Birmingham
Which is why it's called HS▸ 2... ah, yes: as we need a new line we might as well spend a large fortune engineering it for very high speeds, so it can save time which we'll then lose by dumping passengers off at Curzon St. etc. etc. |
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grahame
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« Reply #1376 on: April 21, 2023, 08:07:00 » |
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by dumping passengers off at Curzon St. etc. etc. ...
At the London end, this was also the Victorian way of doing it ... look how all the London termini were built around a circle at the edge of where the development had already taken place. Only the quite-late route that is now Thameslink crossed through. You have Paddington at one extreme and Fenchurch Street at the other. On the south (need to check my history) I think Bricklayers Arms was early ... Perhaps there is sense at "dumping people off" at the edge and then spraying them to their varied final destinations in slower, smaller, less intrusive transport. Same principle as the Cambridge Guided Busway too ... |
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Coffee Shop Admin, Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, TravelWatch SouthWest Board Member
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Bob_Blakey
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« Reply #1377 on: April 21, 2023, 09:15:42 » |
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.....so it can save time which we'll then lose by dumping passengers off at Curzon St. etc. etc.
The Curzon Street station that will have, at some point, high-speed services continuing further north and plenty of other fast, high capacity connections to Birmingham New Street, Birmingham Moor Street & Birmingham Snow Hill? In an ideal world the HS2▸ station would have been directly beneath BHM but sometimes engineering and/or financial limitations have to be accommodated. |
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Electric train
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« Reply #1378 on: April 21, 2023, 09:28:25 » |
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It never ceases to amaze me how everyone focuses on the London - Birmingham HS2▸ service when in reality on the day HS2 opens services from Glasgow, Preston, etc will be running on HS2.
It is highly likely the HS2 rolling stock will enter service ahead of the HS2 opening running services into Euston, allowing for the Class 390 Pendolino's to be retired
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Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #1379 on: April 21, 2023, 09:45:42 » |
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It is highly likely the HS2▸ rolling stock will enter service ahead of the HS2 opening running services into Euston.
To be fair, given that's at least 17 years away, that doesn't set a terribly high bar. |
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