Red Squirrel
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There are some who call me... Tim
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« Reply #1335 on: March 04, 2023, 21:14:38 » |
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For those with time to spare, or a strong interest, this debate - it's over an hour and a half long - may be worth listening to: 'Should green groups support HS2▸ ?' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVAuub_mF2A&t=2813s |
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Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #1336 on: March 05, 2023, 08:16:53 » |
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It's going to come as a real shock when trains start running, especially for anyone still campaigning against it.
If |
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #1337 on: March 05, 2023, 18:32:55 » |
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Watched it. Well, listened to it, watched a few bits. Interesting in places, informative in parts. Not exactly starting from a neutral place! |
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Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
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Red Squirrel
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There are some who call me... Tim
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« Reply #1338 on: March 06, 2023, 18:17:21 » |
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Watched it. Well, listened to it, watched a few bits. Interesting in places, informative in parts. Not exactly starting from a neutral place! The thing that surprised me most was that the panel seemed to essentially support HS2 in principle; they just didn't like the way it is being done. No doubt it could have been done better, and we have to hope that lessons are learnt for future phases. |
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Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
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TonyK
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The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!
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« Reply #1339 on: March 06, 2023, 19:38:09 » |
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I'm not sure I can spare 90 minutes, what with life being short enough as it is. Could either of you give a synopsis?
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Now, please!
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Red Squirrel
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There are some who call me... Tim
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« Reply #1340 on: March 07, 2023, 10:57:08 » |
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I'm not sure I can spare 90 minutes, what with life being short enough as it is. Could either of you give a synopsis?
Well we sort of did, between us. Not much to add really. It would be easy to accuse the Woodland and Wildlife Trusts of cakeism - they want the environmental benefits of rail, but they don't want the inevitable environmental damage that building railways creates. HS2▸ Limited have been heavy handed, and their surveys and mapping of areas affected by the line have been inaccurate. But unsurprisingly the panel didn't discuss the difficulty of playing nicely when there are angry people standing in front of your bulldozer. Or viable alternatives, other than that other cakeist idea that you can somehow improve local rail services without compromising long distance trains. The Greens have a poll about HS2. You can vote, if you're interested: https://twitter.com/BrightGrn/status/1632399987039404034 |
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Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
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Ralph Ayres
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« Reply #1341 on: March 07, 2023, 13:53:17 » |
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Agree with previous synopses. Nothing new said really so probably not worth it unless you've got time to fill (though double speed helps!). Still far too many comments relating to the time savings rather than capacity increase. The whole very high speed vanity project side of HS2▸ may well have added to the impact on wildlife, SSSIs etc by increasing the cost of the of engineering needed and reducing the scope for deviating round strategic sites, making HS2 financially and practically less willing to address wildlife matters, though it could be said that the government is at fault for not insisting that they take the right approach.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #1342 on: March 07, 2023, 16:14:34 » |
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I'm not sure I can spare 90 minutes, what with life being short enough as it is. Could either of you give a synopsis?
Well we sort of did, between us. Not much to add really. It would be easy to accuse the Woodland and Wildlife Trusts of cakeism - they want the environmental benefits of rail, but they don't want the inevitable environmental damage that building railways creates. HS2▸ Limited have been heavy handed, and their surveys and mapping of areas affected by the line have been inaccurate. But unsurprisingly the panel didn't discuss the difficulty of playing nicely when there are angry people standing in front of your bulldozer. Or viable alternatives, other than that other cakeist idea that you can somehow improve local rail services without compromising long distance trains. The Greens have a poll about HS2. You can vote, if you're interested: https://twitter.com/BrightGrn/status/1632399987039404034 The Poll is from Bright Green, a left leaning media organisation focussing on Green issues rather than the Green Party itself, in the context of the Green Party discussing their position on HS2 shortly. Somewhat surprisingly (perhaps) given the much trumpeted environmental benefits of HS2, the now completed poll came down on the side of opposition to it. |
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TonyK
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« Reply #1343 on: March 07, 2023, 17:16:08 » |
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Close, though, although that doesn't always matter in votes. Are they now going to ask for work to stop and all holes to be filled back in?
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Now, please!
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #1344 on: March 07, 2023, 17:57:06 » |
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Close, though, although that doesn't always matter in votes. Are they now going to ask for work to stop and all holes to be filled back in?
Here's what the Greens are going to discuss. It's about as clear as mud. https://hs2.green/its-green-party-policy-to-oppose-hs2/ |
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ray951
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« Reply #1346 on: March 09, 2023, 11:31:57 » |
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Delaying a project never saves money, unless we enter a period of deflation. |
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stuving
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« Reply #1347 on: March 09, 2023, 12:15:00 » |
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Delaying a project never saves money, unless we enter a period of deflation. While much of the wording is ambiguous, there is this in that BBC article: It is understood that the government hopes that the delays will allow it to spread the cost over a longer period of time, making it more affordable by reducing annual expenditure. In other words, it's not the total cost that is being reduced - indeed, any change of plan can only add to the final cost for the same end product. |
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ray951
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« Reply #1348 on: March 09, 2023, 12:30:46 » |
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So it isn't going to save any money. So delaying it will also cause benefits and the value of the assets to be realised later; so again adding to the overall 'cost' of the project. But apparently we need to do this so that the PM and Chancellor can hit their target of seeing debt fall as a % of GDP. We don't live in a serious country any more; see also the half-completed Didcot-Oxford electrification, etc.  |
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bradshaw
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« Reply #1349 on: March 09, 2023, 13:21:34 » |
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The aim seems to be to enable the Treasury to reduce its borrowing over time; purely political. It will end up costing more in the end.
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