HS2 - Government proposals, alternative routes and general discussion

[whole diary]

[Western Pathfinder]

The question I find myself asking ,is why today ? What are they attempting to lay a smokescreen with HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) for ?..

[Red Squirrel]

The question I find myself asking ,is why today ? What are they attempting to lay a smokescreen with HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) for ?..

Indeed.

Out of interest, how much of a disaster would it have been to terminate HS2 at Wormwood Scrubs Central?

[stuving]

The question I find myself asking ,is why today ? What are they attempting to lay a smokescreen with HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) for ?..

Why who? Is this not just some Sun reporters sitting round a table saying "if all big spending programmes are being reviewed, could they be looking at cutting some of HS2? That's always good for a shock horror headline!"

Of course any change "might" possibly happen, and so it can never be flatly denied as "never been considered". Even if that just means considered for a shortlist of things to be looked at as outline changes (i.e. what's spent, committed, or needed to undo work done vs. still to be spent and thus potential savings), after which it would need a full engineering study to get some real estimates. So if the first quick look said "no point - it would cost more", and given that no spending decision can't be reversed in the future, you can still say it is being considered and may be cut back.

[eightonedee]

....and Jeremy Hunt, current chief holder of the Government's purse strings has said it will go to Central London.

I does beg the question - where does "central London" start? To a country boy like me Old Oak is central London, but I know of others who think Paddington is a long way out - and as regards south of the river.....

[TaplowGreen]

....and Jeremy Hunt, current chief holder of the Government's purse strings has said it will go to Central London.

I does beg the question - where does "central London" start? To a country boy like me Old Oak is central London, but I know of others who think Paddington is a long way out - and as regards south of the river.....

There are people in Cornwall who regard anything East of the Tamar as London........

[ellendune]

The question I find myself asking ,is why today ? What are they attempting to lay a smokescreen with HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) for ?..

Indeed.

Out of interest, how much of a disaster would it have been to terminate HS2 at Wormwood Scrubs Central?

Quite a big one by the looks of it according to Gareth Dennis on twitter.

HS2's Old Oak Common station, as currently specified, is capable of terminating around 3tph. It is being built that way as we speak.
Redesigning and rebuilding it to cope with even half of the proposed HS2 service will cost more than scrapping Euston.

This story is nonsense. But the fact that it is a story at all makes a mockery of the state of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) government and its ability to delivery anything for the future.

If there's any story here, it's that the Euston redesign (taking it from a two-stage to a one-stage design and removing the 11th platform) has delayed the project by at least half a decade, and has increased costs by more than it saved.

[Red Squirrel]

On the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Gareth Dennis described this story as a dead cat, intended to draw attention from various ministers and their tax embarrassments.

[TaplowGreen]

On the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Gareth Dennis described this story as a dead cat, intended to draw attention from various ministers and their tax embarrassments.

Worth remembering in the context of objectivity that Gareth Dennis is on the HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) payroll.

[ellendune]

On the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Gareth Dennis described this story as a dead cat, intended to draw attention from various ministers and their tax embarrassments.

Worth remembering in the context of objectivity that Gareth Dennis is on the HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) payroll.

Good point, but just remember several rules of construction projects:

1) Delay a project and it costs more (though you can offset the time value of money against that)
2) Change a design part way through and it costs more (not just on abortive design work but also the delay (see rule 1).

I think I read that the redesign of Euston involved writing off £100 million in design costs!

[Mark A]

Unless this has very recently changed, Gareth Dennis is employed by Arcadis, the multinational design and engineering company headquartered in Amsterdam.

Mark

[TaplowGreen]

Unless this has very recently changed, Gareth Dennis is employed by Arcadis, the multinational design and engineering company headquartered in Amsterdam.

Mark

Indeed. Rather ironic given the most recent News reports;

https://www.arcadis.com/en-gb/projects/europe/united-kingdom/old-oak-common-overground-stations

[Red Squirrel]

Unless this has very recently changed, Gareth Dennis is employed by Arcadis, the multinational design and engineering company headquartered in Amsterdam.

Mark

Indeed. Rather ironic given the most recent News reports;

https://www.arcadis.com/en-gb/projects/europe/united-kingdom/old-oak-common-overground-stations

Arcadis, Dennis' employer, would presumably benefit from the massive redesign required at Old Oak if HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) were to terminate there. So why is Dennis arguing against this? Is it possible that he is just giving his honest opinion?

[Noggin]

Unless this has very recently changed, Gareth Dennis is employed by Arcadis, the multinational design and engineering company headquartered in Amsterdam.

Mark

Indeed. Rather ironic given the most recent News reports;

https://www.arcadis.com/en-gb/projects/europe/united-kingdom/old-oak-common-overground-stations

Arcadis, Dennis' employer, would presumably benefit from the massive redesign required at Old Oak if HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) were to terminate there. So why is Dennis arguing against this? Is it possible that he is just giving his honest opinion?

I've followed him for a long time on Twitter and would say that he's a very honest, principled bloke. I don't agree with many of his political views, but on the railways he's generally extremely well informed and spot on. 

[TonyK]

If it was a dead cat to draw attention from the tax woes of any ministers and ensure their place around the cabinet table, it hasn't worked.  He's gone. If it was a different sort of animal to give Gareth Dennis a moment in the sun, it is ill advised, and in any case he seems above such chicanery. Jeremy Hunt, Chancellor and leading typo victim, says it will still be going to central London. He seems as cautious a man as any to enter national politics, so, I would assume he isn't thinking of forgetting all about the work already done at Euston and OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)) just to spite the West Midlands mayor, and intends to follow through with the original plan. HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) is at such an advanced stage that scrapping it could lose the Conservatives the next election, and delivering HS2 could just help them keep office in the next election but one.

It is also possible in this Machiavellian world in which we live that Rishi Sunak's sacking of Nadhim Zahawi as party chairman is a dead cat to draw attention from an announcement that work is about to stop on HS2 completely, pending another wholesale review of it, based on polling figures in a few marginal seats. I very much doubt it.

[IndustryInsider]

Leapt upon by Stop HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) unsurprisingly:

https://stophs2.org/news/19849-stop-hs2-reacts-to-shambles-at-hs2-and-news-that-hs2-into-euston-could-be-scrapped

To save you the bother of reading the article, the last sentence sums it up:

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