HS2 - Government proposals, alternative routes and general discussion

[whole diary]

[Rhydgaled]

Sorry, from the photographs I've seen of HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel), modern HighSpeed railways aesthetically speaking aren't a patch on alot of the old railway infrustructure. Why can't they build things that look nice anymore?

As for "HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) needs to be plugged effectively into the existing network, not seen as a stand-alone project", haven't I posted this (my Birmingham HS2 proposal map) yet?

[Red Squirrel]

Sorry, from the photographs I've seen of HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel), modern HighSpeed railways aesthetically speaking aren't a patch on alot of the old railway infrustructure. Why can't they build things that look nice anymore?

Victorian railway infrastructure divided opinion in its day no less than the new stuff does now. Personally I love a brick arch and a rivetted iron girder as much as the next squirrel, but a new concrete viaduct can be very elegant too.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Personally I love a brick arch and a rivetted iron girder as much as the next squirrel ...

See also http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=5560.0 

[Lee]

The long-awaited HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) Plus report has been published.

[Lee]

The HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) Growth Taskforce report, entitled "HS2: get ready", has been published - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hs2-will-drive-urban-regeneration

[Lee]

Government confirms scrapping of HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel)-HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) link - http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/hansard/commons/todays-commons-debates/read/unknown/255/

[stuving]

Government confirms scrapping of HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel)-HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) link - http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/hansard/commons/todays-commons-debates/read/unknown/255/

That statement, plus following questions from back-benchers, has now sneaked to into Hansard.
The statement itself, re-pagraphed for infants, is here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/high-speed-rail-24-march-2014

[Lee]

Cheers stuving.

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the Western Morning News:

Ministers urged to shift London train depot to Cornwall

The Government has been urged to move a major train depot from London to Cornwall so the far South West can reap economic benefits from the ^50 billion high-speed rail line from the capital to the north.

South West politicians, business leaders and passengers have complained the region has to make do with a second-rate rail network while the proposed High Speed 2 (HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s))) project sends 250mph modern trains between London and Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds.

In the House of Commons, Sarah Newton, Conservative MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) for Truro and Falmouth, called on the Government to move the Great Western Old Oak Common train depot from west London to Penzance as part of the programme, creating 60 jobs in Cornwall.

A major new railway station has been planned at the Old Oak Common site, which is poised to be an inter-change for HS2, the Great Western line and the under-construction Crossrail project. Bosses are eyeing a 2026 opening.

During a urgent ministerial statement on HS2, Mrs Newton asked: "HS2 could have real benefits for Cornwall, especially if the First Great Western train depot at Old Oak Common is relocated to Penzance. You have received proposals from me, First Great Western and the (Cornwall and Isles of Scilly Local Enterprise Partnership). When will you be able to let us know your decision?"

In response, Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin said: "You raise just one of the many issues that need to be looked at and resolved but I certainly think that Old Oak Common will become a major new transport focus for future generations and has a very important role to play. So getting the maximum development in that area is very important as well."

The Great Western train depot at Long Rock just east of Penzance stores British rail-class high speed trains and Voyagers deployed cross-country. The logic behind moving more trains to west Cornwall would be to have them at one of either end of the Great Western line.

Mrs Newton said afterwards: "This is a good way to bring high-quality jobs into Cornwall. And I and my colleagues will be making a strong case so that the depot comes to Penzance."

Last week, Torbay Liberal Democrat MP Adrian Sanders called for the Great Western line to be electrified as far west as Penazance as a sweetener for the agreeing to HS2.

Elsewhere during the session, South West Devon Conservative MP Gary Streeter asked the Transport Secretary for assurances that HS2 will leave enough money for an alternative or complementary route to the vulnerable Dawlish as soon as one is identified by Network Rail.

[JayMac]

And when the weather interferes?

Bad enough with just a handful of trains trapped. With a large part of the fleet based in Cornwall it would be even more difficult to run long distance services.

[ellendune]

And would there be a huge increase in Cornwall to London trains or just a load of empty carriage workings?

[Southern Stag]

Of course the maintenance of the new IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) trains is already set to be at the ex-Eurostar depot at North Pole not far from Old Oak Common. I believe some work has already started to prepare the depot for IEP.

[Lee]

The Design Council on why they think the 1960s Euston station should be kept, and on their view that its loss would be as big as that of the original Victorian building it replaced - https://www.designcouncil.org.uk/news-opinion/defence-euston-station

[TaplowGreen]

And when the weather interferes?

Bad enough with just a handful of trains trapped. With a large part of the fleet based in Cornwall it would be even more difficult to run long distance services.

..........then why not use this as a catalyst to divert funding to create more robust infrastructure in the South West as well as creating jobs rather than blowing billions of ^ on HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) which virtually no-one wants or needs to cities such as Birmingham and Manchester which already have more than adequate transport facilities to the South............if people appreciated that there is life West of Exeter then we may be able to avert it becoming more of an economic and industrial wasteland........I must declare an interest here as I am a Janner in exile and still smarting from last night's defeat to Exeter! 

[ellendune]

And when the weather interferes?

Bad enough with just a handful of trains trapped. With a large part of the fleet based in Cornwall it would be even more difficult to run long distance services.

..........then why not use this as a catalyst to divert funding to create more robust infrastructure in the South West as well as creating jobs rather than blowing billions of ^ on HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) which virtually no-one wants or needs to cities such as Birmingham and Manchester which already have more than adequate transport facilities to the South............if people appreciated that there is life West of Exeter then we may be able to avert it becoming more of an economic and industrial wasteland........I must declare an interest here as I am a Janner in exile and still smarting from last night's defeat to Exeter! 

What percentage of trains from Paddington end up at Penzance?

So there rest would just have to be very long empty stock workings. A waste of time, manpower and energy and making a less robust service regardless of Dawlish. Moving Old Oak Common depot to Long Rock is at best ill-conceived!

It is also wrong to say no one wants HS2 - just because you don't.  Like it or not there is at the very least an arguable business case.  And as for lots of services to the South from the North that is so, but there are lots of people - at least 20 times more than live west of Exeter. And in case you haven't looked up there large parts of the North have been an industrial wasteland for many decades.

Yes the far South Wests needs economic regeneration and yes it needs a more robust rail service, but not at the expense of the north and not but ill thought out depot locations.