Changes to FGW complimentary service?

[whole diary]

[Mookiemoo]

I fail to see the problem with New Street. There are lifts and plenty of screens, with Phil announcements to guide you.

You can often change elsewhere. e.g. I could change at Smethwick Galton Bridge and Sandwell & Dudley to avoid New Street. I could avoid the LU by changing at Watford Junction and East Croydon.

i think the problem is - we need to cope for the aging granny who is not capable of changing trains because they get confused

If you extend that argument  - every station in the country needs to have a direct train to every other one

If they are that doddery - drive them or post them special delivery

[willc]

I fail to see the problem

Got it in one - but then clearly neither of you are never going to get old and doddery and btline doesn't mind getting drenched when it's raining at Sandwell & Dudley, though it's alright for anyone using the Cotswold Line not travelling to the great metropolis of Worcester to get soaked changing platforms at Oxford...

As for bloody Phil - give it a rest.

[Mookiemoo]

I fail to see the problem

Got it in one - but then clearly neither of you are never going to get old and doddery and btline doesn't mind getting drenched when it's raining at Sandwell & Dudley, though it's alright for anyone using the Cotswold Line not travelling to the great metropolis of Worcester to get soaked changing platforms at Oxford...

As for bloody Phil - give it a rest.

I'll bet you a quid for every time I got drenched at sandwell and dudley earlier this year.................

the point is the disabled are by defiition LESS abled - you can accomodate physical disability but when it comes to the point granny cant make the journey alone because new street confuses her thats life.  We cant cater for evrything all the time 

[IndustryInsider]

you can accomodate physical disability but when it comes to the point granny cant make the journey alone because new street confuses her thats life.  We cant cater for evrything all the time

If that's your argument, then why should we try to accommodate physical disability? After all empty wheelchair spaces take up room where seats could be located, and delays can occur when trying to load or unload a wheelchair bound passenger. Staff costs could be reduced as you would need less people on hand to assist them, and in the case of blind passengers then FGW^▸ (First Great Western) could save lots of money not having to print out special Braille copies of its safety information. There would also be no need to spend money on hearing induction loops on platforms and at ticket offices, and trains would be so much easier to design if wheelchairs were banned.

The trouble is, so people actually believe that would be a sensible way forward. Fortunately for them (and those who have stated on here that elderly people should be left to their own devices, or rely on somebody driving them everywhere), FGW and the wider world cares a little bit more for their well-being.

Take the Great Malvern example, where you have a town with well over the average age per head of the population, and running a wider variety of through trains might indeed make business sense sometimes. I bet a hefty amount of revenue has been lost from elderly passengers who used to travel from the south coast, Hampshire, Berkshire or Oxfordshire to the north west or Scotland. A choice of direct train, even if it was only once or twice a day, has now been taken from them.

[Feckham]

Hi

you can accomodate physical disability but when it comes to the point granny cant make the journey alone because new street confuses her thats life.  We cant cater for evrything all the time

If that's your argument, then why should we try to accommodate physical disability? After all empty wheelchair spaces take up room where seats could be located, and delays can occur when trying to load or unload a wheelchair bound passenger. Staff costs could be reduced as you would need less people on hand to assist them, and in the case of blind passengers then FGW^▸ (First Great Western) could save lots of money not having to print out special Braille copies of its safety information. There would also be no need to spend money on hearing induction loops on platforms and at ticket offices, and trains would be so much easier to design if wheelchairs were banned.

The trouble is, so people actually believe that would be a sensible way forward. Fortunately for them (and those who have stated on here that elderly people should be left to their own devices, or rely on somebody driving them everywhere), FGW and the wider world cares a little bit more for their well-being.

Take the Great Malvern example, where you have a town with well over the average age per head of the population, and running a wider variety of through trains might indeed make business sense sometimes. I bet a hefty amount of revenue has been lost from elderly passengers who used to travel from the south coast, Hampshire, Berkshire or Oxfordshire to the north west or Scotland. A choice of direct train, even if it was only once or twice a day, has now been taken from them.

Well mother could be included as a granny by age, but not by agility or health playing 4 rounds of 18 holes golf per week.

However has to be said that the direct XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) Bournemouth via Basingstoke - Reading to Leeds and beyond was a useful tool for her to go an see the family "up North".   However, in order to get a direct connect on the return to Reading for her trip in July, would have had to be at Leeds for 6am! and a premium price of ^125. (Yes there were alternatives for less, but with changes in New Street/Reading etc)

Flybe (again) from Southampton>Leeds, ^3.19 each way and with taxes, insurance and carry on luggage ^86 all in

Afraid to say that was the preferred option

[moonrakerz]

Look - a bet NOONE goes from Great Malvern to Brighton on that train. It is only used by locals for part of the route. (Why, IMO^▸ (in my opinion), it should be split into a regular hourly service pattern instead of varying destinations and gaps in the service!)

The reason I quoted that trip was that the last time I used it (Warminster - Worcester - New St: very cheap !) was that the girl sitting opposite was actually going to Brighton. She had done the trip before and was carrying large amounts of food and water !

[Btline]

...clearly neither of you are never going to get old and doddery and btline doesn't mind getting drenched when it's raining at Sandwell & Dudley, though it's alright for anyone using the Cotswold Line not travelling to the great metropolis of Worcester to get soaked changing platforms at Oxford...

As for bloody Phil - give it a rest.

Why do you always have to reply with such venom to a poster that has a different viewpoint than you? As well as jumping on small details when I am only giving an example off the top of my head. And twisting my comments to make me seem like I am a nasty person that does not care about this issue. Sorry, but it is really grating on me.

I completely understand the problems that elderly and disabled people have changing trains. My point was, if they can change at X station, then New Street should be okay as well. If they are so "old and doddery", then they should organise assistance or not travel by rail. It has become the latter for some relatives of mine, unfortunately. It saddens me, but it is the way it goes.

[willc]

Why - on this occasion maybe because I'd had a crappy day, not your fault admittedly, but we all know you love Phil, there's no need to constantly remind us at every opportunity and just because he's making the announcement doesn't make one of the hole in the ground's last-minute platform changes any more palatable, whether or not you are hale and hearty and ready for a dash up and down the stairs.

The rest of the time because of the endless rehashing of the 'Worcester good, Cotswold stops bad', 'fast trains for Worcester, stopper for everybody else', '20 years ago nothing stopped at Hanborough and it was so much better' themes, no matter what evidence to the contrary, pointing out that the world and the rail network have moved on, is presented.

Not everyone is happy about changing trains, or crossing London. Saying 'use assisted travel' is all very well, but my experience tends to suggest that many elderly people are determined to retain their independence and 'don't want to be any trouble' and view such services as only for those in wheelchairs. My aunt, who is in her 80s, used Oxenholme-Reading through trains several times a year - there weren't many each day, but she would plan her travel around them. Now she goes to Euston and my cousin goes there to meet her and travel with her to Reading.

The industry knows there is a problem with New Street, which is why they want to rebuild it, and why when the through NW-SW XCs^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) stopped running, they started trying to get people to change at Wolverhampton, Cheltenham, etc and hang around for half an hour between trains. They still are, see http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/Find_a_train/Making_your_train_connections_easier.aspx

And whenever I have to go north, I will try to get a through train from Leamington, precisely to avoid being messed around by those last-minute platform changes at New Street, because i don't like it either, even if I know it like the back of my hand.

[Btline]

Admittedly, the last minute platform changes at New Street are bad, but other than that it is no worse than a place like Bristol Temple Meads to change IMO^▸ (in my opinion).

After several incidents (of which I will not go into detail of here - let's just say that station or train staff would have been no help in preventing it) several relatives of mine can no longer travel by rail. Before they coped fine with New Street changes. (into 70s)

As for "http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/Find_a_train/Making_your_train_connections_easier.aspx" that is the biggest load of TOSH I've seen in my life. I've read the leaflet and it's WRONG. If you are travelling from the South West - e.g. Bristol to Manchester, there are NO more trains from Cheltenham to Manchester than Bristol to Manchester. For the extra services coming up from Reading, you must change at Birmingham New Street! In a few cases (such as coming from the extremities of the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) network, or travelling on the Turbo routes to/from Cardiff and Nottingham, it may work. But to publish such a piece of literature is a disgrace!

As for Phil - calm down about it. I assumed most posters took my Phil posts to be light hearted. Nothing more.

The rest of the time because of the endless rehashing of the 'Worcester good, Cotswold stops bad', 'fast trains for Worcester, stopper for everybody else', '20 years ago nothing stopped at Hanborough and it was so much better' themes, no matter what evidence to the contrary, pointing out that the world and the rail network have moved on, is presented.

i.e. a difference of opinion. Many other posters (and no doubt people in Worcester and Hereford) agree and say such things. We think it is absurd for HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) to be carrying around air when they could run a few faster services to get more bums on seats AS WELL AS the stoppers and halts train.

[The Grecian]

Admittedly, the last minute platform changes at New Street are bad, but other than that it is no worse than a place like Bristol Temple Meads to change IMO^▸ (in my opinion).

After several incidents (of which I will not go into detail of here - let's just say that station or train staff would have been no help in preventing it) several relatives of mine can no longer travel by rail. Before they coped fine with New Street changes. (into 70s)

As for "http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/Find_a_train/Making_your_train_connections_easier.aspx" that is the biggest load of TOSH I've seen in my life. I've read the leaflet and it's WRONG. If you are travelling from the South West - e.g. Bristol to Manchester, there are NO more trains from Cheltenham to Manchester than Bristol to Manchester. For the extra services coming up from Reading, you must change at Birmingham New Street! In a few cases (such as coming from the extremities of the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) network, or travelling on the Turbo routes to/from Cardiff and Nottingham, it may work. But to publish such a piece of literature is a disgrace!

As for Phil - calm down about it. I assumed most posters took my Phil posts to be light hearted. Nothing more.

The rest of the time because of the endless rehashing of the 'Worcester good, Cotswold stops bad', 'fast trains for Worcester, stopper for everybody else', '20 years ago nothing stopped at Hanborough and it was so much better' themes, no matter what evidence to the contrary, pointing out that the world and the rail network have moved on, is presented.

i.e. a difference of opinion. Many other posters (and no doubt people in Worcester and Hereford) agree and say such things. We think it is absurd for HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) to be carrying around air when they could run a few faster services to get more bums on seats AS WELL AS the stoppers and halts train.

Apart from the fact that New Street is dark, cramped and can be a wind tunnel on bad days, whereas Temple Meads is light and has a wide area under the platforms to reach your train.


The extremities of the Crosscountry network being everything beyond the Midlands then?. If you want to go from Exeter to Manchester or Leeds to Reading it makes sense to use a station other than BNS^▸ (Barnes (not Birmingham New Street)). You might have to wait longer but it's a lot more convenient changing at Cheltenham than BNS as you don't even have to move platform. Given the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)'s brilliant thought process that means for instance everyone south of Reading must want to go to Manchester it can only be a good idea to give people alternatives to New Street.

[Btline]

Bristol, Newcastle, Reading and Manchester - the places where the core service reaches - are not in the Midlands.

Look - the current XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) method of having core hourly routes is the best. You can't have trains from everywhere to everywhere. Otherwise you prevent clockface timetables, have rolling stock & staff lying around at extremities and have a less reliable service. At least the people of Bournemouth know there is a train at XX15 (or whatever) to X, Y, Z etc. and that they can change at Reading, New Street and Crewe for places further afield.

[IndustryInsider]

the biggest load of TOSH I've seen in my life.[/b] I've read the leaflet and it's WRONG. If you are travelling from the South West - e.g. Bristol to Manchester, there are NO more trains from Cheltenham to Manchester than Bristol to Manchester. For the extra services coming up from Reading, you must change at Birmingham New Street!

Biggest load of tosh? I thought you were a Daily Mail reader?  Anyway, if you board at Bournemouth, Brockenhurst, Southampton, Winchester or Basingstoke, and you're going to Derby, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Leeds, York, Darlington, Durham or Newcastle, the advice that you may wish to change at Leamington Spa is sensible. Oxford or Banbury would do just as well. Any of them is far better than Reading or Birmingham New Street! Yes, you may save 15 or 20 minutes on your journey by changing at New Street, but anyone with luggage, kids, or other mobility to hinder them would probably be welcome of the chance to grab a coffee for 30 minutes and be assured they won't need to change platforms.

[willc]

i.e. a difference of opinion.   Many other posters (and no doubt people in Worcester and Hereford) agree and say such things. We think it is absurd for HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) to be carrying around air when they could run a few faster services to get more bums on seats AS WELL AS the stoppers and halts train.

Now what's the phrase, long on opinions, short on facts... and rather confused here too by the look of it.

The HSTs are carrying around air off-peak, NOT in the peak, which is when you all want a fast train - even if you all want it at different times.

And I'll ask again, since you have never actually come up with a straight answer, how are you going to foot the bills for running extra fast trains, where's the extra stock coming from, where are the extra crews coming from? The current level of service feels about right to meet demand, so don't go expecting lots more Worcester trains post-redoubling. Yes, it adds capacity, but more importantly, it adds reliability and flexibility to cope with problems.

If you remove the bums on seats from intermediate stations and the money that they bring in, that means you have to generate far, far more from Worcester and Hereford to support your special train - places which are very small by comparison with most towns and cities at the outer ends of intercity routes and, I repeat, only enjoy the level of London services that they do because of the money that comes in from those intermediate stations, not least Charlbury, which in the past you have said should be missed by the Cathedrals Express - never mind that it's the busiest station between Oxford and Worcester - along with Kingham.

You also said this service should miss Ledbury and Colwall, which have precious few London trains to start with. Even in steam days, the Hereford portion always called at both.

When the idea of a (Didcot-) Oxford-Moreton Turbo shuttle was suggested, you seized upon it as a reason why you could ditch intermediate stops by Worcester services, when the whole point, if it happens, would be to beef up the service frequency on the eastern end of the line, to get people out of their cars and put more bums on seats, not maintain the status quo frequency-wise.

It wasn't by accident that someone at BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) once suggested shutting the Moreton-Evesham section and running two branches - they knew where the bulk of the traffic and money was coming from. Even in the dark days of the 1970s, they experimented with extra Oxford-Moreton services, probably a few years too soon. Without the earning power from the stations in these parts you would not have the 15 London-Worcester trains a day (plus the halts) that you do.

If one of those 15 starts missing out stops along the way it has bigger repercussions than taking out one train from 50, which is what your precious Virgin flier is in the context of the Birmingham-London service.

[Btline]

You also said this service should miss Ledbury and Colwall, which have precious few London trains to start with. Even in steam days, the Hereford portion always called at both.

Never have! That would be folly. Please delete!

We have only suggested cutting Pershore, Honeybourne and Hanborough stops one peak service arriving between 7.30 and 8.30. This would free up space on the other service which arrives at this time, which calls at the above. Ditto for around 6 pm.

[willc]

The following is taken from a post you made in the 'Petition for double track on Cotswold Line' thread on December 6, 2007:

Then, with additional line capacity, the Cathedrals Express can actually become an express HST^▸ (High Speed Train)- Hereford, Malvern stas, Worcester stas, Evesham, Morton, Oxford, Reading and London only. It would then be feasible to travel to London from Herefordshire and Worcestershire for buisiness or even a daily commute. The village stations would keep their current level of service, but with faster journey times and more a more reliable service- again suiting businessmen and daytrippers.

Did I miss something? Because there appear to be two things missing between Hereford and Malvern, as well as those little-used rural backwaters Charlbury and Kingham.

Your suggestion would leave the stations you mention with yawning gaps in services at the busiest times of the day - which would probably cost you as many passengers as you gained at Worcester, because the first time anyone from Pershore or Honeybourne tried to use Evesham, they would find it the parking nightmare that it was every morning before the extra Vale stops went in - and I remember what it was like very well, because I used to get my car serviced in Evesham, so would drop it off and walk to the station amid the circling motorists trying to find a parking space - but I suppose they could always drive to Warwick instead...

And the Cathedrals arrives in London at 9.45am.