Changes to FGW complimentary service?

[whole diary]

[Mookiemoo]

I was only joshing about O'Leary, but even British Airways seem to be adopting his approach to customer service on short-haul now. Even FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have been flagging up their luggage policy on the website home page lately - presumably in a vain attempt to hold back a summer tide of people towing two of those suitcases as big as they are http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=4105

There's a recession on. I expect if you looked at British Rail's figures from the early 1990s, you would see exactly the same trends, falling first class travel, full stop, as businesses - who buy most FC^‡(resolve) tickets - cut back or go out of business altogether and commuter traffic into London drops off.

Do you think FGW are immune? If there's less money coming in from FC, they are going to look at their offer and it's unlikely to get more generous - as whatever 'freebies' are on offer are unlikely to make anything but a marginal difference to the numbers travelling FC. As far as I can recall, FA, your key reasons for paying the extra are a table and room to spread out or sleep - not whether there was a 'free' chilled Diet Coke.

Am I alone in finding this thread bizarre? Is it really that important? I'm afraid I just don't see it.

Note - I didnt start it

No - the soft drinks are NOT a major factor however - had my next 18 months been in central london and not the thames valley I would not be going FGW - that is about 11K from one person alone less what they spend on non freebies.  From where I am to the TV  I have no choice - but it is an irritant to a coke addict

Doesnt mean im  not going to complain and gripe though!
 

[inspector_blakey]

Sorry guys but the reason first class is no longer special is because of the amount of cheap first class tickets availiable, means more bums on seats but less revenue for the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s so less money to spend on the freebies

Sorry if I'm misinterpreting you vacman, but it's a bit rough to blame "first class no longer being special" on advance ticket holders. It's the only way I can afford to travel in first and be there to raise the tone, for a start...  Seriously though, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are pretty sharp at "yield management", so you won't find many Advance tickets available on trains where FC^‡(resolve) can be filled up at full fares. It's just a question of it being better to get a heavily discounted fare for the seats than run empty.

And tip-toeing very carefully back into the minefield that is the issue of complimentaries, there's an interesting comparison to be made with Amtrak on the Northeast Corridor here. There's effectively a two-tier service, the Acela express (which doesn't count because it's marginally quicker but vastly more expensive) and the Northeast Regional (cheaper, almost as fast and loco-hauled  ) On the Regional services you can pay a 50% premium on your fare to travel "business class" (Amtrak has an annoying habit of pretending to be an airline). This gets you virtually indistinguishable accommodation (in fact, sometimes they use a coach-class vehicle and just tape a "business class" sticker on by the door, classy) and a miserly single free drink*. I know whose first class offering I prefer!

*for the record, you can get a diet pepsi though

[willc]

From where I am to the TV  I have no choice

And the same applies to pretty much any rail journey of whatever class between most places in this country, unless you feel inclined to drive somewhere else - usually a fair distance - to use a different route. And unless you've got time to burn, or like sitting on top of an engine, who would choose SWT^▸ (South West Trains) first class over FGW^▸ (First Great Western) between Exeter and London, whatever the freebies, if indeed SWT offer any? Hence why I find the thread bizarre.

[Timmer]

SWT^▸ (South West Trains) don't offer any extras in FC^‡(resolve).

[Super Guard]

*for the record, you can get a diet pepsi though

It still is not Coke though!  OK, perhaps we shouldn't go there 

[devon_metro]

*for the record, you can get a diet pepsi though

It still is not Coke though!  OK, perhaps we shouldn't go there 

Whilst you mention it, as FallenAngel was singing the praises of Virgin, does she approve of Virgin Cola?

[JayMac]

Bignosemac, Cardiff kept it's 1st class lounge as it gets heavily used, Bristol lost theirs because passengers were not using it and sweeping up the tumbleweed blowing through it was not worth the effort  (this is also a joke, by the way).

The tumbleweed was in evidence today when I stuck my head in the door at Cardiff's first class lounge. Why not FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have a door entry system like VWC at Wolverhampton and NXEC^▸ (National Express East Coast) at Doncaster? Show your vaild 1st class ticket to the camera to gain entry. No permanent staffing needed.

Depends on the time of day, but I have seen the numbers, and Cardiff is busy, Bristol wasn't in terms of users.  I've no idea how it works in other stations, but do they have complementary refreshments as well as a separate seating area? The host is there to dispense refreshments, not just keep it to 1st class ticket holders.

Poked my head in Cardiff lounge during Monday morning 'peak'. One 'suit' in there. Of course it's August and we are in the teeth of a recession, so that may explain a lack of patronage.
The unstaffed lounges I have encountered all have self service complimentary refreshments. As for the host being there to dispense refreshments, that may be the case at Cardiff, as it was at Bristol, but it doesn't happen at Paddington or other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) lounges. Bristol was the only lounge I ever encountered where my coffee (from a machine) was prepared for me. All that is needed in terms of staffing is a door entry system linked to station staff, one or two visits a day to check stock levels and an inclusion of the first class lounge in cleaning rounds. Of course adding these duties to existing station staff may prove difficult, particularly if that self confessed communist, Bob Crow, hears about it!

[moonrakerz]

My "complementary" experience today:-

Boarded at Westbury for Plymouth: Gasping for a coffee: went to buffet (empty), showed ticket asked for a coffee and a biscuit - given coffee, told bikkie could be obtained from trolley when it came round. Trolley arrived after almost an hour - having come all the way from the previous coach ! One more coffee, two (very nice) oatmeal bikkies. I was sole occupant of quiet First Class coach all the way.

Return:
Told by guard no catering staff from Newquay to Exeter (I boarded at Plymouth). Trolley will be available "after Exeter". Catering staff do arrive at St Davids, then told no trolley until after Westbury - not much good to me ! Walk to buffet to find queue half way down next coach ! Return to seat, wait, return to buffet, queue now within buffet car, get served just after Taunton. Lady, trying to redeem FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s name ? gives me coffee plus 4 different food items.

Don't know where they got the buffet coach from, seating at end was a disgusting brown velour !

4 different trains today, 3 were 11 - 15 mins late. Only one on time, Westbury to Warminster - which started at Westbury !
At Westbury (outbound) the station staff were trying to get people with seat reservations to wait at approximately the right place on the platform. Good idea - BUT, most people were in the front of the train (A - C) and, understandably, didn't want to go and stand right down the platform in the driving rain.

[Sprog]

Don't know where they got the buffet coach from, seating at end was a disgusting brown velour !

That would have been an ex-MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about) 'Project Rio' 408** buffet car.

[moonrakerz]

Don't know where they got the buffet coach from, seating at end was a disgusting brown velour !

That would have been an ex-MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about) 'Project Rio' 408** buffet car.

Ta !

[broadgage]

I consider the reduction in complimentary items to be a bit mean, but is not a major concern of mine.
If I want a can of soft drink, buying one one board is not going to hurt me, and if I want to save money, buy at the station.

My concern is more the steady reduction in service offered to first class passengers, I would prefer free soft drinks, but dont really mind paying if it is served at the seat, which is becoming less frequent.

On longer trips I would like to buy a proper meal, every timetable change brings more catering reductions, the traveling chef service is a very poor substitute for a restaurant, with the advertised table service seldom appearing.

[Mookiemoo]

My concern is more the steady reduction in service offered to first class passengers, I would prefer free soft drinks, but dont really mind paying if it is served at the seat, which is becoming less frequent.

Which I think is the crux of the argument and at the root of the more petty gripes about the removal of soft drinks.

I havent - I dont think - complained about the first class service too much in the past - yes its never been as good at virgins but it was ok.

Having been a daily long distance commuter until end of october, going away for six months, then returning in May to daily commuting it was immediately noticable the drop in the service offered.  From more trains with no trolley, to the (for me anyway) reduction in the quality of the offerings and the removal of friday wine.  And what I found even more patronising was the signs that were up saying it was to provide more healthy offerings.  Well passengers on a friday night out of london dont necesarily want healthy after a long week.  Which was why, on a lighter note, one night there was almost a riot when the temp customer host decided to bring out the trolley stacked with fruit where the wine would normally have been - she was going to do the wine as an after thought.  She had that idea wiped clear before she even made her way out of F!

[willc]

every timetable change brings more catering reductions

These reductions would be what exactly? Until the recent withdrawals, FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s full restaurant car services had been provided on the same handful of trains for a good many years (ie, if you weren't on the West Country or South Wales routes, there wasn't one).

They are spending a lot of money on ensuring every HST^▸ (High Speed Train) has some sort of proper buffet car after abandoning the trolley nonsense. Meanwhile, XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) is getting rid of buffets altogether. NX has trashed previously excellent service on East Coast and the Norwich expresses and if you're not in First on Virgin, you won't find anything comparable to Travelling Chef in the 'shop' in standard.

Travelling Chef is available to all passengers on board, even if those in standard do (gasp!) have to get off their feet to get it. Unless one takes a charitable view of what's left of the once excellent GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways) provision after the depredations of NX's stewardship, FGW is probably offering a wider range of freshly cooked food to all comers on far more long-haul trains than any other operator these days.

[broadgage]

every timetable change brings more catering reductions

These reductions would be what exactly? Until the recent withdrawals, FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s full restaurant car services had been provided on the same handful of trains for a good many years (ie, if you weren't on the West Country or South Wales routes, there wasn't one).

The most recent timetable change saw the withdrawal of the restaurant on the up Golden Hind, now downgraded to a travelling chef.
The previous timetable change saw the withdrawal of the restaurant on the 15-00 from Plymouth to London.
The next timetable change is expected to contain the withdrawal of the last remaining restaurant on an up train (12.55 from Plymouth)
This restaurant service has already been deleted from the timetable, presumably to dicourage use, though it still runs.
As recently as 2001 , there were 7 trains to the West country, and 7 return services with restaurants, together with several to/from Wales.
Therefore in about 8/9 years 14 restaurants have reduced to 2, at very roughly the rate of one restaurant withdrawn per timetable change.

The travelling chef is bit better than nothing, but a poor subststute for a proper restaurant.
Likewise the recently introduced microbuffets are a bit better than nothing, but a poor substitute for the proper buffets formerly provided.

[willc]

But eight of those restaurants were still running up until May (plus the South Wales services), so that was six lost in the previous eight years and assuming the workings were paired, due to the need to have the chef and stewards available, that would make three pairs cut over eight years.

According to the Pullman dining page on the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) website, the service is still available on both the 12.00 and 12.55 from Plymouth, as well as the 18.03 and 19.03 from London - I presume the crews do actually announce their presence to people on the lunchtime trains. And unless the evening restaurants go too, they will still have to get the crews up to London somehow, so why would they axe the lunchtime service if the staff are there and being paid?

Just as I am dubious of certain people's enthusiasm on here for a lone fast Worcester-London, I am sceptical about the idea that people might use a particular train because it has a restaurant. If you're off home to Plymouth and arrive at Paddington at 16.55, are you really going to shun the 17.03 and wait an hour just because the 18.03 has a restaurant?

FGW's cuts are hardly on a par with what NXEC^▸ (National Express East Coast) did, with a wholesale massacre - and presumably FGW did it in an attempt to try to preserve some sort of service where they could - but it's not as if their journeys are of Trans-Siberian length and in an age of eating on the run and stations with huge food courts, is it any wonder demand for at-seat dining has fallen?

Travelling chef is a poor substitute? On many services, eg the morning Hereford-Londons, it's a great improvement on a soggy microwaved bacon roll, which was the main 'breakfast' offering for a good few years.

And what's a 'proper' buffet? As far as I'm aware, the mini-buffets are able to offer the full Express Cafe menu, fresh-ground coffee and all, which I would have thought was the most important consideration. And it probably creates a better impression with passengers than a trolley in a vestibule outside a converted toilet.