Rail fare prices - the basis of increases (merged ongoing discussion)

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

Appears the Super Off Peak restrictions will be subject to some last minute change........

I hope not, I've just ordered my copy of Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) Traveller NFM04. Seems about right for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) at the moment though. Wait 'til the fares manual is released then move the goalposts.

[jjmwat4]

Does anyone know if the Advance fares are being withdrawn as well?  Tried several times to book some single restricted advance fares but only ones listed are the new supersaver returns, which are basically half the value of a return ticket.  For example, cheapest weekend single from Swansea to Paddington if booked well in advance was ^13.50 each way, now ^33.00!  Website not giving 10% discount either.  Is there a problem at the moment with the site?

[johoare]

Does anyone know if the Advance fares are being withdrawn as well?  Tried several times to book some single restricted advance fares but only ones listed are the new supersaver returns, which are basically half the value of a return ticket.  For example, cheapest weekend single from Swansea to Paddington if booked well in advance was ^13.50 each way, now ^33.00!  Website not giving 10% discount either.  Is there a problem at the moment with the site?

Welcome to the forum jjmwat4.. Hopefully someone on here will be able to answer your query very soon

[super tm]

The 10% discount only applies to advance tickets. What dates are you trying to book for.  Could be advance quota sold out or you are booking too far ahead and advance tickets not released yet.

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the Daily Mail (with a good picture of Charlbury station):

Rail commuters reacted with fury today after train companies announced record increases in the price of fares with some rising by as much as 143 per cent. The inflation-busting price hikes are being allowed after the rail firms sidestepped Government regulations aimed at keeping prices down.

It is the off-peak fares which are not regulated by Government which are seeing the big rises as opposed to the peak fares which are bound to the rate of inflation which has been been falling. The increases make a mockery of the Labour Government's bid to get more people out of their cars and using public transport in a bid to save the environment.

Now it is feared that thousands of train users already crippled by the recession will be forced to seek other means of transport because of the costly new ticket prices.

Examples of the price hike, which will come into force from Sunday, have been revealed.

First Great Western, which runs trains into Paddington, said: 'It is a challenge to balance the need to encourage customers to use our services while ensuring we generate enough income.'

[Zoe]

I don't quite know what that article is talking about.  Peak (Anytime) fares are unregulated.  The off peak fares are regulated to inflation plus 1 percent.  The cheapest off peak fare will be the new Super Off Peak and so that will be the regulated fare and the existing Off Peak fare increased.  There do not seem to be any changes to peak fares this time but I think we can inspect increases in January.

[bemmy]

Maybe the increases are to cover the cost of providing wheelchair access for all these thousands of passengers who've been "crippled by the recession".... 

[RailCornwall]

The real issue here has to be that this is the THIRD set of rises this year, when inflation is actually negative. Companies should be restricted to one increase a year at a maximum. Regualtion needs to be brought in on all fares too 

[Btline]

ALL fares except Advance should be tied to inflation + 1% (or perhaps just inflation!), which is acted upon once a year.

There should be terms, rules and restrictions which are out of the control of TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company)' manipulation; and consistent across the country.

If a TOC wants to offer a lower Advance or a lower normal ticket (i.e. different route), they can, but with any changes being made once a year.

[John R]

I'm probably going to make myself unpopular here by saying that the new structure is very sensible.

Why? Well, walk on single fares have been nearly halved off peak, making a combination of peak and non peak walk on fares cheaper, and giving more opportunity to buy a combo of advance outward and flexible return at a sensible price.

Also, the precipice of the fare reduction after the morning peak is smoothed, meaning that the underutilisation of the 0830 Temple  Meads to Paddington and the overcrowding of the 0900 should be reduced. (I guess similar effects from other stations.) I can't comment on stations from the South West, but from Bristol it makes sense.

[Henry]

 A friend of mine bought his usual off-peak return to London from Totnes yesterday afternoon.
 With his SNR railcard cost him ^55.00.
 Last week it was ^10 less.
 Can FGW^▸ (First Great Western) justify a 20% increase despite all the spin ?

 Seems to me our Travelwatch and rail user groups are a total waste of time. FGW it seems can do just what they like.

[super tm]

As a reader of this forum I would have thought you would have told him about the club 55 offer currently running.  Cost of return ticket ^20.00 with railcard until beginning of november. 

[Tim]

I'm probably going to make myself unpopular here by saying that the new structure is very sensible.

the new structure is very sensible.  The fact that the new structure only applies to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) makes it overly complicated and confusing.

[Btline]

The new structure is perhaps sensible, but FGW^▸ (First Great Western) should have introduced LOWER Super Off Peak fares like other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) have done. (Chiltern, for example)

As well as this, apparently certain already busy trains from the West Country will be in the Super Off Peak period, and will only get busier.

[grahame]

Seems to me our Travelwatch and rail user groups are a total waste of time. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) it seems can do just what they like.

TravelWatch SouthWest is no longer the statutory instrument it once was - I think it now has a legislated role only in London. In the SouthWest, I value their twice - a - year meetings where there's a chance to meet other campaigners, and their more detailed enquiries / reports.  Have a look at their 'about us' page at http://www.travelwatchsouthwest.org/About_Us.html . I'll be going along next month but they aren't and don't pretend to be a regulator.

You haven't metioned Passenger Focus.   Now they can be very good at ensuring that the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) stick to the letter of their exisiting contracts, and at surverying existing customers on satisfaction, etc.  And I'm going to take my hat off to them and congratulate them on setting up some meetings for Rail User Groups in the FGW area over the next two weeks, to look forwrd and at the GWRUS^▸ (Great Western Route Utilisation Strategy) consultation.

Rail User Groups ... vary.  There are some very good and active groups as far as the regular traveller is concerned, others (such as Save the Train which I am involved with) more focused on getting a decent train service - and there the "what will the fares be" question is important, has been raised / looked at with a view to making the service viable.  But that's a different 'game' to the current changes! Others have a membership that looks more back to the past, when the Class 33 diesels ran the Portsmouth to Swansea, and the stock for the FSO^▸ ((in timetables) Friday and Saturday only) working sat in the siding all week. Good luck to those - there is a place for all of them and indeed I'm a bit that way myself at times if you noticed my post on the Lymington Slammers.

FGW's passenger forum ... another useful group but without any control / without very much inputs on pricing, I suspect, except at the fringes.

And we should add Community Rail Partnerships ... now THERE you may have a chance with fares, such as the changed scheme on the Severn Beach line.

Henry - I would really welcome your constructive inputs.   We should all be playing on broadly the same field - to raise rail use by attractive fares, to give overall good use of the system and a decent return to First shareholders without milking the taxpayer.   How we get there with all these groups (and roll in the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and Network Rail as other interested parties) is the $64,000 question.