Rail fare prices - the basis of increases (merged ongoing discussion)

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

Not in the middle of winter. But yeh, I can see summer being hell. But then again, nobody will travel if its going to cost ^100. How bloody cheeky of FGW^▸ (First Great Western)!

That train won't cost ^100 though.  The issue is that it will be the first train of the day that won't cost that.

...it will cost ^91.50 if you want to your return journey to have a modicum of flexibility!

[old original]

I've done some checking on Advance fares as well. BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) currently has 5 standard class Advance fares under ^25. These are ^10, ^13.50, ^17.50, ^21.00, ^24.50.
After the introduction of Super Off Peaks the ^24.50 Advance is removed and the others all increase except the ^10. The middle three Advance fares are  ^15, ^19.45, ^23.35.

So with the introduction of Super Off Peaks we also see an increase in Advance fares. There are other Advance fares beyond the prices of the new Super and Off Peak single fares, and it appears these have increased as well. I can't do a direct comparison as I do not have NFM^▸ (National Fares Manual) 04.

More info......I've seen the staff brief and it appears the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are apparently going give 10% discount on the advance fares if booked on the web, negating the increase.

[JayMac]

I've done some checking on Advance fares as well. BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) currently has 5 standard class Advance fares under ^25. These are ^10, ^13.50, ^17.50, ^21.00, ^24.50.
After the introduction of Super Off Peaks the ^24.50 Advance is removed and the others all increase except the ^10. The middle three Advance fares are  ^15, ^19.45, ^23.35.

So with the introduction of Super Off Peaks we also see an increase in Advance fares. There are other Advance fares beyond the prices of the new Super and Off Peak single fares, and it appears these have increased as well. I can't do a direct comparison as I do not have NFM^▸ (National Fares Manual) 04.

More info......I've seen the staff brief and it appears the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are apparently going give 10% discount on the advance fares if booked on the web, negating the increase.

Great!! One suspects that'll only be through firstgreatwestern.co.uk. Not much use for us Solo Debit card holders who have to use 'Mixing Desk' ticket sites (NXEC^▸ (National Express East Coast), Southern, London Midland) or purchase Advance tickets at a station.

[Timmer]

More info......I've seen the staff brief and it appears the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are apparently going give 10% discount on the advance fares if booked on the web, negating the increase.

Don't know why but I had a feeling they were going to do that. Good way of getting people to use their site to buy tickets for their routes so they don't have anyone else taking a cut.

I wonder if FGW will be launching the mixing deck way of buying tickets come September instead of using the old trainline application.

[old original]

I've done some checking on Advance fares as well. BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) currently has 5 standard class Advance fares under ^25. These are ^10, ^13.50, ^17.50, ^21.00, ^24.50.
After the introduction of Super Off Peaks the ^24.50 Advance is removed and the others all increase except the ^10. The middle three Advance fares are  ^15, ^19.45, ^23.35.

So with the introduction of Super Off Peaks we also see an increase in Advance fares. There are other Advance fares beyond the prices of the new Super and Off Peak single fares, and it appears these have increased as well. I can't do a direct comparison as I do not have NFM^▸ (National Fares Manual) 04.

More info......I've seen the staff brief and it appears the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are apparently going give 10% discount on the advance fares if booked on the web, negating the increase.

Great!! One suspects that'll only be through firstgreatwestern.co.uk. Not much use for us Solo Debit card holders who have to use 'Mixing Desk' ticket sites (NXEC^▸ (National Express East Coast), Southern, London Midland) or purchase Advance tickets at a station.

Yes, you're right FGWs site only...and you're lucky 'cause at the ex-Wessex stations we've got down here you still can't use solo or electron at the offices, only at the self serve machines (where they've got them). The offices are meant to get the same ticket machines as the FGW stations before the end of the year - watch this space (or perhaps another thread!!)

[Chris from Nailsea]

They probably have first class passes - at least the ones high enough up to mess things up do! 

Not that he messed things up (far from it!) but I do have a rather amusing story about Andrew Haines and his journey home, by first class, one evening from PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) ...

However, I have unfortunately been sworn to secrecy by the member of staff involved ... 

[readytostart]

One very, very small benefit though. As well as Super Off Peak Singles, Off Peak Singles at half the return fare (SVH,  ^50) are being offered.

I apologise if this has already mentioned, but there's five pages worth of cpmments now and my eyes hurt! The SVH Off Peak Single price is a Saver Half and is only available for one half of a return journey when the other half is with an advance ticket. Any longer distance Off Peak Singles should have the code SVS (for the old Saver Single).

This I believe was introduced so that passengers buying an advance ticket for one leg of their journey weren't penalised if there were no advance tickets available for the return leg (which in most cases would make it cheaper to buy an Off Peak return) thus restricting them to one particular train.

I have looked at various online booking systems but can't find anything to back this up and therefore stand to be corrected.

[vacman]

the code is SVS in the Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) for the half price off-peak singles.

[Btline]

Ok, this is getting complicated now!

Can someone summarise what the hell is going on? One post says the Off Peak fares are "regulated", another says Anytime tickets are not.

Is this affecting all routes (i.e. for me, Cotswold line)?

As for the online discount - that's just a ploy to reduce ticket office usage so they can sack more staff and line their pockets even more.

This doesn't sound good - esp if Super Off Peak is scrapped during a "simplification" programme.

[Zoe]

I apologise if this has already mentioned, but there's five pages worth of cpmments now and my eyes hurt! The SVH Off Peak Single price is a Saver Half and is only available for one half of a return journey when the other half is with an advance ticket. Any longer distance Off Peak Singles should have the code SVS (for the old Saver Single).

This I believe was introduced so that passengers buying an advance ticket for one leg of their journey weren't penalised if there were no advance tickets available for the return leg (which in most cases would make it cheaper to buy an Off Peak return) thus restricting them to one particular train.

Does this also apply to Super Off Peak Singles?

[vacman]

Ok, this is getting complicated now!

Can someone summarise what the hell is going on? One post says the Off Peak fares are "regulated", another says Anytime tickets are not.

Is this affecting all routes (i.e. for me, Cotswold line)?

As for the online discount - that's just a ploy to reduce ticket office usage so they can sack more staff and line their pockets even more.

This doesn't sound good - esp if Super Off Peak is scrapped during a "simplification" programme.

The more people book online the better! no people holding up the queue buying advance!

[readytostart]

the code is SVS in the Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) for the half price off-peak singles.

Right you are, hadn't check the grey box of tricks when I popped in my last post! Seems I had the wrong end of the stick! Also saw an SSS for a Super Off Peak single at half the SOP^▸ (Standard Operating Instructions) fare.

[Btline]

From: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8206942.stm

Almost half of UK^▸ (United Kingdom) rail fares, including most commuter journeys, are set to fall by 0.4% next year after a key inflation measure remained near a record low.
Regulated rail fares, which also include long-distance off-peak journeys, are based on July's Retail Prices Index (RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context))) figure, plus 1%.
It was -1.4% in July, after hitting a record low of -1.6% in June.
"For the first time in a generation passengers will see their fares fall," Transport Secretary Lord Adonis said.
Last year, the July figure for RPI was 5%, meaning that rail prices this year rose by 6%.
Regulated fares make up 60% of rail journeys and up to 45% of rail fare income.
'Welcomed'
In 2010, the rules on regulated fares change, with most rail companies having the limit of RPI plus 1% imposed on them. Previously, train operators have been allowed to increase individual regulated fares by as much as 6% over the RPI rate.
   
TYPES OF FARES
Regulated fares Commuter fares (weekly, monthly and season tickets), anytime day singles and returns, short-distance walk-up fares in commuter areas, and long-distance off-peak fares
Unregulated fares Advance and anytime fares on long-distance routes

UK inflation rate stays at 1.8%
"This means most regulated fares will fall in line with the national fare change, which will be welcomed by passengers," Lord Adonis said.
Regulated fares refer to weekly and monthly season tickets in commuter areas, where the Department For Transport (DFT^▸ (Department for Transport)) keeps prices in check by means of fares 'baskets' .
Two train companies, Southeastern and West Yorkshire PTE^▸ (Passenger Transport Executive), are exempt from the change in rules.
Both will allowed to raise fares by 3% on top of the RPI rate from January to fund additional investment in services in those areas, the DFT said.
Rail fares have risen by 5% in real terms since 1997.
"While this will provide welcome respite from the normally unrelenting rise of annual fares, it is just a pause, not the end of higher train fares," Liberal Democrat shadow transport secretary Norman Baker said.
"Passengers shouldn't be fooled by today's announcement - we already have the highest rail fares in Europe and the government's franchise policy will force up unregulated fares even further."
Unregulated fares
There are concerns that unregulated rail fares will surge as train companies seek to recoup the money lost from falling season ticket prices.
Some rail firms have raised fares by as much as 11% recently on advance ticket purchases. First Great Western announced increases of up to 20% on some off-peak services last week.
"We expect a wave of companies now to try and make the passengers pay for January's fares cut by jacking up the unregulated off-peak fares in September," said Gerry Doherty, head of the TSSA^» (Transport Salaried Staffs' Association - about) rail union.
"They will also hike first class and advance fares as well because these are not controlled by the RPI formula."
Mr Doherty also expects rail companies to raise prices at train station car parks.
Hassard Stacpoole, spokesman for the Association of Train Operating Companies, said that train companies set the prices for unregulated fares in the autumn and suggestions of any price increases were "sheer speculation" at this point.
The BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) learned in February that the government had rejected a request from train companies to make sure fares stay rising, even in the event of deflation.
There have been fears that several train companies will not be able to afford cutting the price of fares and may run into financial difficulties.

Of course, a fall of less than a percent is meaningless towards FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s 20% higher fares!

[Chris from Nailsea]

... and, from an old favourite of mine, the Gulf Times :

Commuter rail fares to drop in January
 
London commuters will see peak-time rail fares fall in January for the first time since privatisation in the Nineties.

Negative inflation means train operators will be forced to reduce the cost of tickets for about 400,000 passengers.

The fares are regulated by laws restricting train companies to increases of no more than 1% above the July inflation figure.

I bet the commuters in Qatar will be so envious of the commuters in London, next January ... 

[slippy]

Appears the Super Off Peak restrictions will be subject to some last minute change........