Rail fare prices - the basis of increases (merged ongoing discussion)

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

I thought the Off Peak Return was a regulated fare and so limited to an increase of inflation plus 1 percent.

100% correct. However the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) can change time restrictions on regulated fares as they wish. This allows fares increases by stealth. CrossCountry did it with a blanket 'not before 0930' on their SVRs, although they soon backtracked after the furore this created. They also introduced an afternoon 'Peak' for their CDRs^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')) in places where they set the fare.

Both correct, but from what I was shown yesterday, the off peak restrictions are not changing but the price most certainly is from ^83 to ^100, Being 5 weeks away something still might change, so I might go back and ask a few more questions tomorrow.

I have just done a fare enquiry across numerous TOCs online and NRES^▸ (National Rail Enquiry Service). All show the Off-Peak Return RED-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) as ^83.00 travelling out Monday 14th Sept, any train except 0526, returning Friday 18th Sept, any train except 1703. So no change in the fare, no Friday restriction, and only the removal of the 1703 return which is currently vaild on an Off-Peak ticket to Redruth. Super Off Peak singles have been added at ^41.50, available from 1029 up to PAD, and down from PAD on the 1206, 1406 and after 1903. Now either these systems have not been updated (unlikely as the new new Super Off Peak singles are available) or the information old original was given is wrong. OR the new Off-Peak price is not finalised. But in this final scenario FGW^▸ (First Great Western) can only increase the price by RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) + 1% so it cannot possibly increase from ^83.00 to ^100.00

[Btline]

Just a thought: how many fare rises are there in a year now?

[devon_metro]

Too many.

[Timmer]

Three. Jan, May and September. TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) don't have to raise fares everytime but most just can't help themselves tinkering with restrictions, introducing new ticket types, validities etc.

[old original]

I thought the Off Peak Return was a regulated fare and so limited to an increase of inflation plus 1 percent.

100% correct. However the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) can change time restrictions on regulated fares as they wish. This allows fares increases by stealth. CrossCountry did it with a blanket 'not before 0930' on their SVRs, although they soon backtracked after the furore this created. They also introduced an afternoon 'Peak' for their CDRs^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')) in places where they set the fare.

Both correct, but from what I was shown yesterday, the off peak restrictions are not changing but the price most certainly is from ^83 to ^100, Being 5 weeks away something still might change, so I might go back and ask a few more questions tomorrow.

I have just done a fare enquiry across numerous TOCs online and NRES^▸ (National Rail Enquiry Service). All show the Off-Peak Return RED-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) as ^83.00 travelling out Monday 14th Sept, any train except 0526, returning Friday 18th Sept, any train except 1703. So no change in the fare, no Friday restriction, and only the removal of the 1703 return which is currently vaild on an Off-Peak ticket to Redruth. Super Off Peak singles have been added at ^41.50, available from 1029 up to PAD, and down from PAD on the 1206, 1406 and after 1903. Now either these systems have not been updated (unlikely as the new new Super Off Peak singles are available) or the information old original was given is wrong. OR the new Off-Peak price is not finalised. But in this final scenario FGW^▸ (First Great Western) can only increase the price by RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) + 1% so it cannot possibly increase from ^83.00 to ^100.00

You seem quite right, I've got to go into Truro tomorrow so I'll pop along to the station there instead of Redruth and have a word with the chief bloke there - he seems to know what going on most of the time...

[Btline]

What's happened to inflation? It is below -1 yet? If so, we should see fare freezes or reductions.

Then again, if that happens, they'll probably making all morning travel peak.

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have already made Off Peak Day Travelcards (which should be valid on trains arriving in the capital after 1000) not valid on the first such train, meaning you can't arrive until 1130!

[devon_metro]

I'm told that this is happening! (to the same spec as the original poster)

[JayMac]

We recieved press notification of the January fare rises from ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) on 21 Nov 2008. 6 weeks before inplementation on 2nd Jan 2009.
There were no major increases in May, although restrictions were tinkered with, most disasterously by CrossCountry. It's unlikely that there will be huge price increases from 6th September on regulated fares as the RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) in March (the RPI of 6 months earlier is used to calculate regulated fare increases) was -0.4%. That only leaves a possible rise of +0.6% for regulated fares in September. There may be small increases and the 'basket' rules, allowing larger increases, are still in place, although Lord Adonis has promised to close this loophole.
Interestingly RPI is currently -1.6% so we should see a reduction in regulated fares in January, but I'm sure the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) will find some way around this! Lets hope Lord Adonis' continues to crack the whip and not take any more crap form the TOCs.

[Timmer]

The fact that from September you can buy an off peak single that is half the cost of an off peak return is much better. At present an off peak single is only ^1 less than the return!

I know Virgin have been doing this for a while now.

What it means is that if you don't know when you plan to make either your outward or return journey, you can book a cheap advance ticket for the leg of the journey where you definately know what your travel plans are. Then purchase an off peak single for the part of the journey for which you are not sure about. eg: meeting that could run late or returning from an airport where buying Advance tickets can be risky if your flight is delayed.

You still end up paying less than you would for a off peak return but retain some flexability for one part of the journey, providing you arent travelling at peak times of course.

If this is what FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are planning on making available then they should be congratulated for making flexible travel cheaper by selling a walk up fare as a single at half the cost of the return.

[JayMac]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have already made Off Peak Day Travelcards (which should be valid on trains arriving in the capital after 1000) not valid on the first such train, meaning you can't arrive until 1130!

Where from? You can arrive at 1045 from Bristol Temple Meads or Bath Spa. 1037 from Gloucester, Cheltenham or Swindon. 1102 from Swansea, Cardiff, Newport or Bristol Parkway. 1010 from Oxford, Didcot or Reading. 0955 from Bedwyn, Hungerford or Newbury.
And if you are refering to Great Malvern, Worcester, Evesham etc the first such direct train with the ^39 ODT does indeed arrive at 1130. But my interpretation of the restriction (arrival at London Terminals after 1000) makes no reference to changing trains. So get the up Cathedrals Express (0735 from Worcester SH) and change at Oxford onto the 0901 arriving Paddington at 1010*. But probably not at the moment, what with the engineering.....

*Merely my interpretation, not a statement of fact. I've not tested this. There is another ODT fare from Worcester though at ^56 valid route Evesham or Stroud. This one explicitly allows travel on the 0735 ex WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains), arriving Paddington 0947. Another example of ambiguous restrictions.....

[slippy]

The what was a Saver fare is definately going up apx 20%, so ^83 to ^100 from Cornwall to Paddington is DEFINATELY correct.

[Btline]

I was talking about Cotswold line before the works.

The first FGW^▸ (First Great Western) train to London on an Off Peak Day Travelcard was the 1130 arrival.

Note that the first Chiltern train to London on an Off Peak Day Travelcard is the 1025 arrival (as this is the first arrival after 1000) - over an hour more in the capital, and with no evening restrictions.

[JayMac]

The what was a Saver fare is definately going up apx 20%, so ^83 to ^100 from Cornwall to Paddington is DEFINATELY correct.

Can you please back this up with evidence? As I previously stated; online fares enquiries show no change in the price of an Off Peak Return from Redruth to Paddington after 6th September. And a 20% increase in this fare would need some huge cuts in other fares in that particular basket to keep the whole basket at RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) + 1%. And with only 5 weeks to go and no announcement of an increase, which, I believe, is required at least 6 weeks before a fares change, I remain deeply sceptical that a 20% increase is on the cards. Some strange scaremongering going on here.

[slippy]

Super Off Peak will be current Off Peak price. Off Peak will rise by apx 20p for every pound it is now. Super Off Peak fares are not regulated, apart from changing the name and validity times Off Peak remains unchanged. Thats how they get round it and this is what will happen.

[JayMac]

Super Off Peak will be current Off Peak price. Off Peak will rise by apx 20p for every pound it is now. Super Off Peak fares are not regulated, apart from changing the name and validity times Off Peak remains unchanged. Thats how they get round it and this is what will happen.

Again, I ask.....can we have some evidence of this.