Rail fare prices - the basis of increases (merged ongoing discussion)

[whole diary]

[Temple Meads]

But why is this legal but little advertised scheme not made more public?

Well Mr BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Reporter, because TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s will lost out on a lot of revenue.

I'm not sure that splitting becoming wider public knowledge is a good thing, as the more prevalent it is, the more likely it is that TOC's will want to see it made harder/impossible.

[brompton rail]

An article on ticket splitting on the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) website:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19217111

And apparently there's a new Apple 'app' to help people do it. Will be interesting to see what the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) do to try to stop it...

However the app only offers singles at the moment.

A better bet is brfares.com. Because this website converts the Fares Manual into a more usable form. You are asked for departure and destination station and then click 'query' and the fare comes up. 'Expert' mode gives all fares from singles through to advanced, any train use restrictions (excluded times etc). No more than the Fares Manual but easier and FREE!

You do, of course, need to work out your own splits, but at least checking possible splits against the through fare is easier. One other advantage is that it also lists other stations in the destination group. One example ... Derby to Birmingham, but on checking the list this fare is also the same for Derby to Henley in Arden, which is handy as I wanted to go to Stratford (only a couple of quid for Henley - Stratford ticket bought on train - unstaffed station). Through ticket Derby to Stratford is over three times as much!

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) has announced that the general regulated fares increase in Jan will be RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) + 3%. However both the Scottish and Welsh governments have indicated that fares increase will be RPI + 1%. How will the differing regimes affct rail fares between England to and from Scotland and Wales?

[paul7575]

DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) has announced that the general regulated fares increase in Jan will be RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) + 3%...

Have they really?   

As far as I can see all that happened today was that July's RPI was announced, the rest is speculation based on previous government announcements, and reporting of the usual suspects comments. 

There's nothing on the DfT site about January's fares at all.

Paul

[JayMac]

Wait for the November spending review. It'd be no surpirse if Georgie Boy (or his successor) doesn't go for another 'temporary' reduction in the fares rise formula. Maybe RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context))+2% this time.

[Btline]

Indeed. Very clever how you can turn a 8% fares rise into a positive story by saying "lower fare rises" or "it could have been 11%".

[Steve Bray]

But just as New Year follows Christmas, rail fare increases follows New Year. It happens every year so we shouldn't be too surprised should we? And all the talk about high rail fares isn't stopping record numbers of journeys being made on the network. (Not that I'm defending increases as I am a commuter)

[old original]

...but this didn't stop the bbc having a third go in six days, another non story this morning...

[ChrisB]

The next fares round is actually on 2 September, when some TOCS are putting up fares.....unless you consider the three times a year they can raise fares as a 'round'?

Chiltern are putting up their SOP^▸ (Standard Operating Instructions) From stations Birmingham - Bicester North by a whopping 10% - from ^25 to ^27.50.

I suspect it may not hold though - didn't Chiltern 'swap' their regulated off-peak fare from the old 'saver' fare, now the off-peak Return, with the Super off-peak last September? I think they did.

In which case, the current RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context))+1% applies, which wasa LOT less than 10%! Enquiries being made.....

Any other rises on 2 September to note?

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Rail fare rise capped by government

A passenger group has welcomed news that the average rail fares rise will be capped at just over 4% next year.

The government had intended to allow train firms to raise the average price of regulated fares by the Retail Prices Index (RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context))) inflation plus 3%.

But Prime Minister David Cameron said that the rise for the next two years will be RPI plus 1%.

This means that in January 2013 commuters will have to pay for average rises of 4.2% rather than 6.2%.

The RPI plus 1% formula will also apply for London's buses and the Tube for the next two Januarys.

London Mayor Boris Johnson's spokesman said the government's announcement was "very helpful and represents good news for hard-pressed commuters in difficult economic times".

A spokesman for passenger group Association of Train Operating Companies (ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here)) said: "The government's change in policy is a positive move for passengers."

TSSA^» (Transport Salaried Staffs' Association - about) rail union leader Manuel Cortes said: "He is still punishing commuters with an inflation-plus increase of 4% which he repeats in both 2014 and 2015."

[ChrisB]

It wont nevessarily be 4%+ in 2014/5 unless rhe TSSA^» (Transport Salaried Staffs' Association - about) can foretell the inflation rate in force in July 2013/4!!

[paul7575]

I bet the TSSA^» (Transport Salaried Staffs' Association - about) wish Labour were back in power, which would probably mean that the rise would be limited to about er...  RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context))+1%!   

Paul

[JayMac]

Another u-turn by HMG over the fares rise formula.

For the next two years regulated rail fare rises will be RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context))+1%. I think I predicted this elsewhere on the forum some time ago. At least this time the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) (or more likely the Treasury) have given the industry a bit more notice. Last year's u-turn was announced in mid November.

From the Department for Transport:

Reduced cap on rail fare rises

Passengers will benefit from a cut of up to 2% to the planned rises in the cost of nationwide train travel and travel on London buses and tubes following today^s announcement by Prime Minister David Cameron.

The average increase in regulated rail fares and the cost of travel on London^s buses and tube network will be limited to one per cent above inflation for 2013 and 2014. Rail fares had been due to increase by RPI+3%, while fares on London buses and tubes had been due to rise by RPI+2% in 2013.

This is expected to benefit more than a quarter of a million annual season ticket holders who can expect to have an extra ^45 back in their pockets as a result of today^s decision. Many more holders of weekly and monthly season tickets could also see lower fares and some commuters will be over ^200 better off over the two years.

The Department for Transport (DfT) is planning that from January 2015 onwards the regulated fares cap for franchised train operators will increase by RPI+1%.

The decision to reduce the planned increases, funded from savings identified in the DfT^s budget, will benefit hard-pressed commuters and passengers. In future years the DfT will look to absorb the costs by reprioritising within existing budgets.

The fares national rail passengers pay will continue to support our major programme of rail improvements, the largest in scale since the Victorian era. It will deliver crucial benefits for passengers, including relief from crowding on some of the nation^s busiest routes.

The Government still believes it is vital that efficiencies are found in the cost of running the railways so that we can deliver better value for money for both taxpayers and farepayers and end the era of above-inflation rises.

I'm somewhat cynical about these u-turns. I get the impression the government gets us all prepared for eye-watering rises and then shows us how nice they really are by lowering the increase. It is a welcome announcement but I fear it has little to do with railway finances and more to do with political expediency.

[grahame]

The fares national rail passengers pay will continue to support our major programme of rail improvements, the largest in scale since the Victorian era. It will deliver crucial benefits for passengers, including relief from crowding on some of the nation^s busiest routes.

The Government still believes it is vital that efficiencies are found in the cost of running the railways so that we can deliver better value for money for both taxpayers and farepayers and end the era of above-inflation rises.

That's 9.4 billion across 60 million people is an investment of 136 pounds per person  - http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jul/16/9bn-railway-investment-unveiled-cameron . So that's 3.9 million on behalf of Melksham, 5 million for Trowbridge, 3.5 million for Portishead, 94,000 for Avoncliff, 2.3 million on behalf of Westbury, etc.

I'm somewhat cynical about these u-turns. I get the impression the government gets us all prepared for eye-watering rises and then shows us how nice they really are by lowering the increase. ....

Indeed.  I can recall one re-franchise operation that cut 3 car services on a secondary main line to 2 car trains, then after a year or 2 lifted then back to 3 car. Rather interesting, the lasting publicity and memories are of the improvements that have been brought about by the step up to 3 carriages rather than of the earlier cuts and their effect.  In reallity, the net effect was just to maintain the status quo. 

[Electric train]

Another u-turn by HMG over the fares rise formula.

For the next two years regulated rail fare rises will be RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context))+1%. I think I predicted this elsewhere on the forum some time ago. At least this time the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) (or more likely the Treasury) have given the industry a bit more notice. Last year's u-turn was announced in mid November.

From the Department for Transport:

We are now on the (long) lead up to the next General Election, however by the time the next fare increase hits some commuters pockets the election could be less than 18 months away so a cap for 2 years       or am I just being cynical