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Author Topic: FGW West Fleet at full stretch?  (Read 15904 times)
Sprog
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« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2009, 21:47:31 »

It is getting better slowly - 158955 reformed to 3 car today, and hopefully another one will regain its third carriage tomorrow
Thats good news. Well done to the SPM (St Philip's Marsh (Bristol depot)) crew for getting them back in service again.

Wo do try our best!  Wink Grin
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smithy
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« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2009, 16:33:58 »

noticed the same myself,lots of ports-card journeys formed 2 cars.
pretty poor service really i wonder if FGW (First Great Western) regret getting rid of the 4 153's,9 150's and 12 158's over the past few years?

They didn't have a lot of choice in the matter - they were told to give them up by DafT.

I thought it was commented that certainly Exeter TMD (Traction Maintenance Depot) had done a fantastic job with regards to the 142s for miles per casualty.

They have done, but that's in the context of a type of train that has probably the worst mpc figure of any in use in Britain, so they were starting from a pretty low base.



i know the daft do stick thier nose in but first must of said during bidding process they can run the minimum service level with a smaller fleet? hence saving money and allowing ATW (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC (Train Operating Company))),Northern and scotrail more sets in thier fleets?
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smithy
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« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2009, 16:36:19 »

Looking at today's live updates page on the FGW (First Great Western) website, there are at least three diagrams of two car 158s operating in place of three car 158s. Someone in the know please correct me if I'm wrong.

Several Hybid 158s are currently missing centre cars, due to an unusual amount of engine related problems last wseek, including 2 total seizures!

why all of a sudden are the engines having problems? in your opinion is it poor workmanship from recon company or are they getting less preventative maintenance these days?
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eightf48544
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« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2009, 16:58:40 »


why all of a sudden are the engines having problems? in your opinion is it poor workmanship from recon company or are they getting less preventative maintenance these days?

This seems to fairly common problem with units. They seem to follow the classic bell curve whereby the reliability starts low and gradually builds and then starts to tail off. With units changing  engines you can go through several bell curve cycles per unit related to the engine.

It looks like the fleet is reaching a milage when as you say either defects from the recon or poor maintenance is having a significant impact.
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Sprog
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« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2009, 23:23:25 »

Looking at today's live updates page on the FGW (First Great Western) website, there are at least three diagrams of two car 158s operating in place of three car 158s. Someone in the know please correct me if I'm wrong.

Several Hybrid 158s are currently missing centre cars, due to an unusual amount of engine related problems last wseek, including 2 total seizures!

why all of a sudden are the engines having problems? in your opinion is it poor workmanship from recon company or are they getting less preventative maintenance these days?

Combination of the two IMO (in my opinion).

No depot (or exam/maintenance regime for that matter!) is perfect , but SPM (St Philip's Marsh (Bristol depot)) are pretty much 'on it' in terms of maintaining the west fleet, especially in areas of fault finding/repair and also 'Level 5' work such as engine/transmission/wheel set changes. All of the new staff who were recruited to do overnight B exams are settling in nicely and although there are still lots of irritating corporate/political hurdles to get over, the exams are being done and the fleet is being kept together. Issues and trends are being identified and action is constantly being taken to tackle repeat failures with fleet campaigns. We also did our first full 'in house' Bogie change the other week, which was a great success. There as been talk and planning towards bringing all West fleet C4/C6 overhaul work on the DMUs (Diesel Multiple Unit) in house, but with the electrification announcement, plans and priorities may well have changed.

I look at it this way, when the Shed is empty in the morning with 1 or 2 units knocking around for As/FPXs or C4 work and we struggle to find jobs for the shift to do, we are doing our job properly. If the shed is packed to the rafters with units and people are running around like headless chickens trying to clear the backlog of jobs, something is very wrong! EX is also staying on top of its Donkey fleet (142/143) and since the allocation re-shuffle of units, ie. 143s swapped for the 150s and their MPC (Miles Per Casualty) is staying High.

However, despite our relatively good availability of late, some still mange to slip through the net occasionally, often due to either an oversight or by the mounting pressure of maintaining fleet availability, causing referrals of non-safety critical work. Last week i carried out an engine Half-Life (250k Miles) exam on a 153, which was....50,000 miles overdue!!!!!! The poor thing was rough to say the least, and whilst not safety critical, the engine is obviously a vital component that can be costly in terms of fuel/oil/coolant consumption, plus keeping time and the increased potential for failure. After half a days TLC (three letter code ) she was running sweat as a nut again, with a full top end/tappet set-up, brand new Injectors, Water Pump, Compressor Head etc, good for another 200K miles before its change-out time.

We do seem to go through 'duffy' batches of re-manufactured units that have suffer from the same problems. For example, the Cummins NT855 R1 (158) or R5 (153/150) engines are re-manufactured by LH Group, who are usually pretty spot on with workmanship but often seem to be let down by using what would appear to be inferior/badly manufactured aftermarket components. We have done employee exchange programmes with LH Group in the past, to show each companies employees what happens on the opposite end of the component life cycle and the work involved. Also, at the end of last year, a big Apprentice exchange program was being set up between FGW and LH although this has unfortunately been knocked on the head for the time being by LH due to the current financial pressures.

Over the past 6 months we have had a massive amount of top-end related running problems due to pitted camshafts. On examination, it would appear from a simple visual inspection of the failed camshafts that the failed shafts are all very similar in appearance caused by what looks like incorrect/insufficient processing of the metal during production. Whether this is because of scrimping is yet to be seen, but i suspect that it is.

Dependant on the circumstances surrounding the failure (after joint investigations), these defective parts are replaced as part of the product warranty from LH, especially if there is a known/recurring problem and repairs will be made by their (or LH approved) technicians, however you still have the initial failure and then the resulting downtime of the vehicle, plus the additional manpower/overheads/consumables etc and of course on the Ops side, the dreaded Impact minutes!!!!!!! It all gets reclaimed in one way or another financially through claims and counter claims, but that doesn't stop the public seeing the effects by a 2-car 158/9 rolling in as the 3rd car is stranded on depot waiting for LH to attend.

I would like to emphasise though that while i have used LH Group in this example, the same situation occurs with all the other over-haulers/suppliers, such as Wabtec/Voith/Cummins etc.

It is alot more complicated and engorsed than most people would think..........!
« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 23:39:45 by Sprog » Logged
willc
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« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2009, 23:43:28 »

noticed the same myself,lots of ports-card journeys formed 2 cars.
pretty poor service really i wonder if FGW (First Great Western) regret getting rid of the 4 153's,9 150's and 12 158's over the past few years?

They didn't have a lot of choice in the matter - they were told to give them up by DafT.

I thought it was commented that certainly Exeter TMD (Traction Maintenance Depot) had done a fantastic job with regards to the 142s for miles per casualty.

They have done, but that's in the context of a type of train that has probably the worst mpc figure of any in use in Britain, so they were starting from a pretty low base.



i know the daft do stick thier nose in but first must of said during bidding process they can run the minimum service level with a smaller fleet? hence saving money and allowing ATW (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC (Train Operating Company))),Northern and scotrail more sets in thier fleets?

Well franchise bidding is a bit of a lottery, so it probably didn't hurt to say that of course DafT's timetable and stock plan looked do-able - even if many had doubts. And it wasn't the case that all that stock had somewhere to go to. For example, the 153s released spent a good while parked up at Eastleigh awaiting a new home.
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Timmer
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« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2009, 06:33:18 »

Many thanks Sprog for taking the time to let us know what the SPM (St Philip's Marsh (Bristol depot)) crew have to deal with when it comes to maintaining and servicing the West Fleet. Its helpful to know what goes on behind the FGW (First Great Western) service updates page when it reports services are running a bit shorter than usual and what happens behind the scenes to maintain a full fleet.
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« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2009, 08:27:43 »

Thanks for the info Sprog, it's interesting reading about how you guys in SPM (St Philip's Marsh (Bristol depot)) are getting on after the delays in setting things up.

Although there were a few groans last night at Filton when the 1709 turned up shortformed, this is the Pompey train, thankfully the 150 was waiting at BRI» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) to connect to which hasn't always been the case recently. I dread to think what would have happened if it hadn't.

It didn't prevent a delay of 15 minutes while the driver tried to clear the vestibule, an 'altercation' occured according to the guard, at least the trolley got on.  Grin
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tramway
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« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2009, 21:15:38 »

The 0700 off Trow was extremely short formed this morning with 0 carriages.
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anthony215
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« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2009, 22:15:50 »

I know that from December  2009 with South west trains  cutiing back their services to run only from London Waterloo to Exeter St Davids, First Great Western are hiring another Loco hauled train are are extending some of their Cardiff - Taunton services through to Paington to replace the withdrawn SWT (South West Trains) service.
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2009, 22:22:28 »

Thanks for that information, anthony215 - and welcome to the Coffee Shop forum!  Wink Cheesy Grin
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« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2009, 22:34:42 »

Will this mean that with two hauled sets four locos will be needed?!?!?!
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devon_metro
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« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2009, 22:44:12 »

Yes, but 2 might not be red!

There is only 1 extra set. The second being the set currently in use.
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anthony215
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« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2009, 23:20:16 »

well some people i have spoken to said that most likley another loco hauled train could be brought in if they can find some mark 2 stock carriages.

so from december there should be 2 loco hauled sets in service and possible a 3rd  which again dependingstock being available.

as for the new trains i know now that the order for 11 4 carriage class 172 turbostars for the cardiff - portsmouth route has been canceled thanks to the electrification product with first great western only receiving the class 150's from London midland next may ( iff bombardier dont have any delays building the class 172's


other than that the only other trains thta FGW (First Great Western) are likely to receive will be the class 165/166 dmus from the london - oxford & thames valley services although  Arriva trains wales want to nick some for the cardiff valley lines network
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XPT
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« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2009, 22:42:44 »

as for the new trains i know now that the order for 11 4 carriage class 172 turbostars for the cardiff - portsmouth route has been canceled thanks to the electrification product with first great western only receiving the class 150's from London midland next may ( iff bombardier dont have any delays building the class 172's


other than that the only other trains thta FGW (First Great Western) are likely to receive will be the class 165/166 dmus from the london - oxford & thames valley services although  Arriva trains wales want to nick some for the cardiff valley lines network

That's a shame then that we won't be getting Class 172's on the Cardiff-Portsmouth's.   I've been thinking for a few years now it would be a refreshing change if we had some different DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s on these services instead of the same old 150's or 158's which have been used for many years now!  I like the Turbostar trains(much preferable over the Sprinters), so it would be great if we had some down this way.  But it looks like that won't be happening.

The Class 165 and 166's being used on services again in this region is interesting news though.  When are these likely to make their way down here?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 22:49:18 by XPT » Logged
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