Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Cruithne3753]

I'm curious about the details of where the wires will go... will EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) be able to run between Bristol and Cardiff?  How far SW from Temple Meads will they go for commuter trains etc or have these not been finalised yet?  Are there any "blow up" maps?  All I've seen just show the overview.

[Zoe]

How far SW from Temple Meads will they go for commuter trains etc or have these not been finalised yet?  Are there any "blow up" maps?  All I've seen just show the overview.

Under the current plan the wires will end at Bristol, commuter trains to Weston and Taunton will remain DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) operated.

[IndustryInsider]

And EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)'s would be able to run Bristol to Cardiff as the Temple Meads to Patchway diversionary route is being electrified.

[Electric train]

I believe the only EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) services planned are the Thames / Kennett Valley with cascaded 319's from Thameslink, I have not heard of any proposals to use EMUs in the Bristol / Cardiff area.  The thing about electrification is once it hits an area the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s want to make more use of it so my guess is the business case will be made to extend the wires and operate EMUs

[Tim]

There might be a case to split Cardiff-Pompy at BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) and use EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) for the electrified bit

[ChrisB]

People won't want to change trains....

[anthony215]

Wasn't FGW^▸ (First Great Western)  & network rail etc looking at the possibility if they could be cleared for the route to use the class 166's on the Cardiff - Portsmouth Services?

[ChrisB]

News to me.....rumours abound though.

[paul7575]

Wasn't FGW^▸ (First Great Western)  & network rail etc looking at the possibility if they could be cleared for the route to use the class 166's on the Cardiff - Portsmouth Services?

Yes - it has been mentioned in the various Network Rail annual 'route business plans' for three or four years now, and has definitely been discussed in this forum before.  So it's more than a rumour. 

It would require appropriate gauge clearance though.  The subject is usually raised in the context of how the 165/6 cannot possibly be used anywhere away from their current routes; however I'd point out that they were recently cleared between Redhill and Selhurst, and between Basingstoke and Guildford via Woking, in the run up to last Christmas's diversions.  Ths didn't appear to require any significant structure work, so it shouldn't be assumed there would be any major problems anywhere else.

Paul

[Tim]

People won't want to change trains....

I agree, but I suspect that we might long term see service pattern changes.  The ability to run EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) from Cardiff to Taunton would strengthen the case for electrification beyond Bristol

[devon_metro]

People won't want to change trains....

The main flows end at Bristol though. Whenever I travel on Portsmouth/Cardiff services I always join and leave at Bristol, and it seems the majority of passengers do the same.

[ChrisB]

So you make the case for not wiring BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) to Taunton then....

[bobm]

I've often wondered what the problem with the 165/166s is when it comes to gauge clearance. They seem to operate on a fairly wide cross section of routes at the moment. What's the main issue regarding them working further afield?

[eightf48544]

So you make the case for not wiring BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) to Taunton then....

I don't see the point of stopping the wires at Tauton it gives no real operation advantage except for local EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)'s serving stations to Bristol and Cardiff.

You'd still be looking at diesel or bi mode for services fro Exeter and beyond fro both FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and  XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) services.

The logical places to stop the wires from Bristol are Exmouth, Paignton and Plymouth. With Berks and Hants infill.

Just think of diesel you'd save on the Devon banks. 4000hp at top revs must suck in an awful lot of precious fuel.

Having got to Plymouth then Penzance plus the Cornish branches must be the next goal. To basically eliminate diesel West of Plymouth.

As the line speeds are basically low it must be possible to use a lighter catenery than for London to Bristol and therefore reduce the overall cost.

I just hope Network rail can electrify the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) to budget and ontime so that there is enough confidence to allow the electrification teams to just keep going West.

That's why loco haulage with swaps between Diesel and Electric locos makes sense the changover moves as the wires progress.

[paul7575]

I've often wondered what the problem with the 165/166s is when it comes to gauge clearance. They seem to operate on a fairly wide cross section of routes at the moment. What's the main issue regarding them working further afield?

Personally, I think I'd file it under railway myths. 

As has been discussed fairly regularly elsewhere, there is a world of difference between 'can't be cleared' and 'hasn't been cleared yet'. 

Paul