Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Zoe]

The Plaid AM referred to Wales as a country, so Northern Ireland is a fair comparison.

Plaid want independence so they consider themslves their own country.  Northern Ireland would remain part of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) in that event.  Confusingly though all the home nations with the UK can be referred to as countries even though the UK itself is a country.

[woody]

Statement in the Commons (video):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/house_of_commons/newsid_9410000/9410594.stm




Edited to correct weblink. CfN. 

[Chris2]

In general I believe that the announcement is good news for the great western main line, even though they are only initially going to electrify as far as Cardiff. As more wiring is put up the business case for ordering new diesel rolling stock is weakened, because of environmental benefits associated with electric rolling stock.At the same time the business case for extending the wiring is strengthened as commuter services between Cardiff and Bristol could be swapped to electric rolling stock. Which then strengthens the case for wiring to Taunton and then to Exeter. As long as a rolling programme of electrification is established eventually the wires may even reach Penzance but that could be a very long time away.

[ChrisB]

They'll never go beyond PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains). PLY-PNZ will unfortunately end up the same as Cardiff-Swansea.

However, they have left it open to announce further knitting towards PLY before the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) replacement, so bi-mode may replace the HST eventually.

[Brucey]

Oh dear, the PM seems to think the West Coast Main Line runs to Cardiff

[anthony215]

Oh dear, the PM seems to think the West Coast Main Line runs to Cardiff

I think we all had a bit of a laugh about that (Ok when can i see a pendolino at cardiff then? lol)

[Zoe]

Which then strengthens the case for wiring to Taunton and then to Exeter. As long as a rolling programme of electrification is established eventually the wires may even reach Penzance but that could be a very long time away.

If you are going to wire Bristol to Exeter then continue to Plymouth.  Ending the wires at Exeter would be a bit pointless.  Very few trains from the north terminate at Exeter, almost all continue to Plymouth.  Services to Plymouth could then go over to EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) operation.  As noted by ChrisB though, Plymouth is as far as the wries will ever go so you'd still need bi-mode from Plymouth to Penzance.

[Chris2]

Which then strengthens the case for wiring to Taunton and then to Exeter. As long as a rolling programme of electrification is established eventually the wires may even reach Penzance but that could be a very long time away.

If you are going to wire Bristol to Exeter then continue to Plymouth.  Ending the wires at Exeter would be a bit pointless.  Very few trains from the north terminate at Exeter, almost all continue to Plymouth.  Services to Plymouth could then go over to EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) operation.  As noted by ChrisB though, Plymouth is as far as the wries will ever go so you'd still need bi-mode from Plymouth to Penzance.

Being realistic I have to agree with both of you that Plymouth is as far as the wires will go. But eventually when a certain percentage of the network or franchise is wired. It becomes sensible to extend the wiring to cover the entire franchise area. This therefore avoids the problem of diesels under the wires. But is extremely unlikely to occur.

[woody]

 I now think serious consideration should be given to eventually sending all West of England express services via Bristol in the future perhaps retaining a limited diesel operated Paddington/Taunton/Exeter service on the Berks and Hants with further electrification from Bristol on to Exeter/Plymouth thus concentrating these services and future investment where possible on the core Great Western route via Bristol equipped with European Rail Traffic Management System (ERTMS^▸ (European Rail Traffic Management System.)).This would be the best use of scarce resources longer term.With say mostly 125mph running Paddington to Bristol and  Bristol to Bridgewater and limited stop say Reading/Bristol/Taunton/Exeter and electric  acceleration journey times should be at least as good as todays Berks and Hants timings using a standard fleet of trains.Electrification would also benefit X country services from Bristol to Plymouth.

[Zoe]

I now think serious consideration should be given to eventually sending all West of England express services via Bristol in the future perhaps retaining a limited diesel operated Paddington/Taunton/Exeter service on the Berks and Hants with further electrification from Bristol on to Exeter/Plymouth.

Where is the logic in ending the wires at Exeter?  I don't even see why it should be a possibility unless you really want trains to switch to diesel for the short run to Plymouth.

[woody]

I now think serious consideration should be given to eventually sending all West of England express services via Bristol in the future perhaps retaining a limited diesel operated Paddington/Taunton/Exeter service on the Berks and Hants with further electrification from Bristol on to Exeter/Plymouth.

Where is the logic in ending the wires at Exeter?  I don't even see why it should be a possibility unless you really want trains to switch to diesel for the short run to Plymouth.

A simple misunderstanding here I think Zoe.I did mean electrify to Plymouth to Bristol not just Exeter to Bristol.

[Electric train]

Optimistic thoughts of wires to Plymouth either of the route has not had any consideration, there has been not feasibility study or outline power supply study.

[Zoe]

Optimistic thoughts of wires to Plymouth either of the route has not had any consideration, there has been not feasibility study or outline power supply study.

Well the decision to retain HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) for now has at least given a few years for this to be considered so a decision can be made on electrification, bi-mode or DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit).

[anthony215]

Optimistic thoughts of wires to Plymouth either of the route has not had any consideration, there has been not feasibility study or outline power supply study.

Doubt network rail would put wires along the dawlish seawall

[Zoe]

Doubt network rail would put wires along the dawlish seawall

It's not as much of a problem as people think and has already been done at Saltcoats.  Even if it was a problem you could always put the line between Dawlish Warren and Teignmouth inside a shelter.