Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Maxwell P]

Taking the 5 spare 180s into use with FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would count as extra capacity into Paddington.

How is that relevant to new stock, I hear you all ask?

How about new 172 to LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise), 150 to FGW, 142 back to Northern, releasing 180 to FGW...

Paul

I believe that the 180s are heading north, I think to Grand Central and that 3 HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) will come the other way.   My info dates back to early October and I have heard nothing else since, but it was an FGW director who mentioned this during a visit west.

[onthecushions]

Article in todays western mail suggesting thet the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) have decided to only electrify as far as Bristol with Dual fuel trains being used on London -  Swansea services.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2010/12/14/network-director-says-high-speed-link-is-off-the-rails-91466-27820336/


Big mistake in my opinion if it does turn out to be true

I think that this probably refers to the subdivision of the project for appraisal purposes.

Generally this involves costing  options of do nothing, do everything and several points in between.
The suburban  part would have optional terminations of Reading, then Oxford finally Newbury. With re-used stock the solution is quick and in this case favourable.

For the IC^▸ (Inter City) section, options costed would be Bristol (3 possible routes), Cardiff and Swansea.
Evidently there's no problem with Bristol but the South Wales loadings may be more marginal. There's the added complication of what trains to purchase which may also affect the outcome of the marginal sections.

The simplest rolling stock solution IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) would be 5 x 23m  car EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)'s (Class 342?) of 125 mph.
The best would be TGV^▸ (Train a Grande Vitesse)'s/ICE's but the infrastructure would need more work but not too much thanks to IKB^▸ (Isambard Kingdom Brunel).

OTC

[onthecushions]

The 2007 Station Entries and Exits gives the following approx (Mpax/yr):

Swindon                   2.5
Chippenham             1.4
Bath Spa                  4.2
Bristol TM^‡(resolve)                 6.5
Bristol PW^▸ (Permanent Way)                1.8
Newport                   2.0
Cardiff                     9.1
Bridgend                  1.2
Port Talbot               0.35
Neath                      0.57
Swansea                  1.6

Not all of the footfalls are FGW^▸ (First Great Western) of course.

Cardiff wiring looks safe but Swansea?

OTC

[Worcester_Passenger]

Those Cardiff figures will have a hefty component from the Valley lines. Swansea hasn't got an equivalent suburban network.

[IndustryInsider]

Article in todays western mail suggesting thet the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) have decided to only electrify as far as Bristol with Dual fuel trains being used on London -  Swansea services.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2010/12/14/network-director-says-high-speed-link-is-off-the-rails-91466-27820336/

Big mistake in my opinion if it does turn out to be true

Indeed it might be, but I thought we'd all learn not to trust a damn word of these so called exclusives - no matter who's been misquoted this time -  following all the nonsense leading up to the Comprehensive Spending Review statement, and follow-up statement from Philip Hammond.

I can't be bothered to drag up all the links, but we all remember being told that Crossrail was either going to terminate at Heathrow and/or the the Abbey Wood extension was to get axed.  Then there was the removal of ATO^▸ (Automatic Train Operation) or other cuts to the Thameslink project.  Then there was the cancellation of the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) project with HST^▸ (High Speed Train) being life-extended.  Then there was the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification to be completely shelved in preference to electrifying the MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about).  Need I go on?  I don't remember a single article getting anywhere near being correct in what's been announced so far!

Let's just wait and see... 

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks very much for your 'words of wisdom', IndustryInsider!

I've heard some rather more encouraging opinions recently, from very senior staff at FGW^▸ (First Great Western).  While I obviously can't reveal my sources, I'm now rather inclined to follow IndustryInsider's suggestion: let's just 'wait and see', shall we? ... 

CfN. 

[Electric train]

Article in todays western mail suggesting thet the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) have decided to only electrify as far as Bristol with Dual fuel trains being used on London -  Swansea services.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2010/12/14/network-director-says-high-speed-link-is-off-the-rails-91466-27820336/

Big mistake in my opinion if it does turn out to be true

Indeed it might be, but I thought we'd all learn not to trust a damn word of these so called exclusives - no matter who's been misquoted this time -  following all the nonsense leading up to the Comprehensive Spending Review statement, and follow-up statement from Philip Hammond.

I can't be bothered to drag up all the links, but we all remember being told that Crossrail was either going to terminate at Heathrow and/or the the Abbey Wood extension was to get axed.  Then there was the removal of ATO^▸ (Automatic Train Operation) or other cuts to the Thameslink project.  Then there was the cancellation of the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) project with HST^▸ (High Speed Train) being life-extended.  Then there was the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification to be completely shelved in preference to electrifying the MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about).  Need I go on?  I don't remember a single article getting anywhere near being correct in what's been announced so far!

Let's just wait and see... 

The mode of operation of the current Government is to "fly a kite" in other words the group doing the reviewing will send out questions to seek opinions to alsorts of stake holders, these questions or opinion seeking do get leaked to the press may be deliberately at times

[Lee]

From Railnews:

New bid for GW^▸ (Great Western) electrification to Wales

A group of political and business leaders in South Wales is urging the Department for Transport to extend the electrification of the Great Western Main Line to Bristol, Cardiff and Swansea.

One councillor said the issue was a ^critical^ one for the Welsh capital.

The transport secretary Philip Hammond announced partial electrification of the Great Western route on 25 November.

This will take the wires on from their present termination on the main line at Airport Junction, near Hayes and Harlington, as far as Newbury and Oxford.

After the announcement in November, Welsh First Minister Carwyn Jones branded the news ^disappointing^. Transport minister Ieuan Wyn Jones was also critical, accusing the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) of ^sidelining^ the Principality.

Mr Hammond^s plan to include Oxford would also mean the electrification of the main GW line as far as Didcot Parkway but the group, of about 80 community leaders, says continuing electrification across the Severn to South Wales would provide an essential economic lifeline.

The group, the Great Western Partnership, includes local authorities as well as the South East Wales Economic Forum.

The leader of Cardiff council Rodney Berman said: ^Electrification of the main line is a critical issue for the Cardiff city-region which is why we, along with Bristol and Swindon councils, formed the Partnership.^

The electrification announced so far by the DfT would cater for commuter and regional services between London and the Thames Valley, but leaves the question of intercity trains undecided. The DfT said: ^The extent of further electrification for intercity services is dependent on the intercity train option we choose.^

This will hinge on the eventual fate of the delayed Intercity Express Project. Hitachi was named as preferred IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) bidder almost two years ago, but the programme has stalled since then, partly because of economic problems but also because the extent of future electrification is still under review.

A wider assessment of railway spending is in progress, which will be informed by Sir Roy McNulty^s ^Value for Money^ report, due to be published this year.

Another factor is the recent go-ahead for High Speed 2 between London, Birmingham, Manchester, the East Midlands and Leeds, which would influence the case for and against electrifying the Midland Main Line between Bedford and Sheffield.

[anthony215]

This has been released in the last day or so:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5iJOfrNsWyFJD2dAspCiUZdt44hhw?docId=N0512321296653692392A

. There another article which i will have a look for now which stated that HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s would continue to work London - Plymouth/Penzance services for anothee decade before some  Bi-mode class 222 's are displaced from the Midland mainline which is also looking like it will be electrified in the near future

[Timmer]

There another article which i will have a look for now which stated that HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s would continue to work London - Plymouth/Penzance services for anothee decade before some  Bi-mode class 222 's are displaced from the Midland mainline which is also looking like it will be electrified in the near future

A 222 all the way from Paddington to Penzance?  I don't think the good people of the Southwest are going to like that very much and with good reason. Just think of the summer holiday traffic and luggage cramming onto a 222. No bad idea if that is what Daft are thinking IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion).

[inspector_blakey]

You'd be surprised, they're much better than Voyagers, although not necessarily the best possible solution for PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-PNZ in the summer.

But what's a "bi-mode" 222...? Was it a slip of the keyboard or are Bombardier still muttering about the feasibility of making the 22x series electric or bi-mode by bolting a pantograph onto the roof? Think that will require some fairly major surgery on the bodyshells since to the best of my knowledge they're all monocoque pre-stressed car bodies that don't have pantograph wells.

[rogerw]

The idea is to build an additional coach with pantograph and transformer, at the same time increasing seating capacity.

[Timmer]

You'd be surprised, they're much better than Voyagers, although not necessarily the best possible solution for PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-PNZ in the summer.

Yes they are better than Voyagers but they are still noisy underfloor engined trains not ideal for travelling the long distances involved from London to the West of England.

[vacman]

Long distance London to the Southwest? your having a laugh, currently there is a Voyager that runs Aberdeen to Penzance! you'd have to pay ME to travel on that lol!

[woody]

IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) deal 'close to completion' http://www.railpro.co.uk/news/?idArticles=694
Quote from said article "This deal was largely finalised in the last few days, and is now ready for political approval."
Electrification to Bristol only using Bi-mode IEP to Bristol/Southwales and refurbished HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) for another 10 years to the South West followed by Midland Mainline Electrification,Meridians fitted with additional pantograph cars could then be cascaded as bi-mode trains to the Plymouth and Penzance services run on electric power as far as Newbury.