Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[eightf48544]

There is a piece in Modern Railways December saying Crossrail is limited to ^14 billion down a billion.

They seem to be looking for things to cut (or build cheaper) so not building the Maidenhead turnback sidings would seem an obvious saving.

Especially as hopefully Reading remodelling will be finished, unless it turns into another Leeds for those of you old enough to remember, before the wires arrive. Hopefully without new signal structures with insufficient headroom as per Newport.

I always thought Crossrail should electrify the Greenford branch with an interchange at North Acton (not Greenford) with the Central Line. That would enable 4tph currently terminating at Paddington to run round the loop. It would also enable Heathrow Express and Connect to turn threir units round and prevent excesive wheel wear on the tight one way curves at Airport Junction

[willc]

To change the Crossrail Act would take up Parliamentary time the Government would argue they have more important uses for that time.

If any further legislation is required, and as Paul says, it may not be needed anyway, it could be done quickly as a private bill, for which time is set aside in Parliament. There are about 10 or so such bills currently going through, including some from TfL^» (Transport for London - about), which is in charge of Crossrail.

Morton Cutting is a possibility for a construction depot for GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification it is to far out of the reach of Crossrail, Maidenhead would be a stabling depot for the main one at OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)).

Moreton is nearer to London than Wellingborough, where engineering trains for London Underground modernisation are marshalled, or, er, Taunton, where the GWML track renewal train and high-output ballast cleaner are stabled, so face a bit of a trip to do any work in the Thames Valley area. And if they decide that Crossrail is going to go to Reading, they won't be spending a penny piece on sidings at Maidenhead.

[eightf48544]

"And if they decide that Crossrail is going to go to Reading, they won't be spending a penny piece on sidings at Maidenhead."

Let's hope you are right willc!

[willc]

I think that the Home Secretary might have something to say about them shelling out money for sidings that wouldn't be needed right in the heart of her constituency. And Theresa May is a staunch advocate of Crossrail going right through to Reading, as Twyford is also in her constituency.

I should add, after our discussion above, that her website's Crossrail page, though oddly not updated for about two years, contains the following ministerial assurance, given to her in 2008:

Importantly, he confirmed that the line could be extended under existing legislation and it would not have to go through the same lengthy parliamentary procedures as this Bill.More

See http://www.tmay.co.uk/news/?c=crossrail

[IndustryInsider]

This part of the government's statement last Thursday caught my eye:

"In total the Government will deliver more than 2,100 new rail carriages onto the network by May 2019. Of these, 1,800 will be for new Crossrail and Thameslink services. This will in turn free up hundreds of existing electric carriages to be deployed onto the newly electrified lines by franchised train operators. In total, there will be at least 1,850 net additional carriages on the network by 2019. The Government will now enter into commercial negotiations with the franchised operators about the allocation of the unallocated element of 650 further carriages for delivery before 2014. Subject to those negotiations, the Government expects additional carriages to be added on services into Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield, Liverpool, Newcastle, Birmingham, Bristol, London Paddington and London Waterloo."

Does anybody know exactly why they've mentioned London Paddington?  Obviously, extra capacity will be provided by transferred Class 319's and whatever form the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) replacement takes, but that paragraph specifically mentions the extra 650 carriages allocation and Paddington in one sentence.  Are there going to be other capacity improvements or am I missing something?

[eightf48544]

Your guess is probably as good as anyone's.

Await Roger Ford's disection of the figures with interest.

[paul7575]

Taking the 5 spare 180s into use with FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would count as extra capacity into Paddington.

How is that relevant to new stock, I hear you all ask?

How about new 172 to LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise), 150 to FGW, 142 back to Northern, releasing 180 to FGW...

Paul

[IndustryInsider]

How about new 172 to LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise), 150 to FGW^▸ (First Great Western), 142 back to Northern, releasing 180 to FGW...

I'm sure if the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) really worked it out they could factor the Class 483's on the Isle Of Wight into that cascade somewhere! 

[anthony215]

Article in todays western mail suggesting thet the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) have decided to only electrify as far as Bristol with Dual fuel trains being used on London -  Swansea services.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2010/12/14/network-director-says-high-speed-link-is-off-the-rails-91466-27820336/


Big mistake in my opinion if it does turn out to be true

[Tim]

... But on the plus side there is the suggestion that electric wires may eventually reach Plymouth. 

They were always going to do the bit closest to London first anyway so I won't be too disappointed.   

[inspector_blakey]

Article in todays western mail suggesting thet the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) have decided to only electrify as far as Bristol with Dual fuel trains being used on London -  Swansea services.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2010/12/14/network-director-says-high-speed-link-is-off-the-rails-91466-27820336/


Big mistake in my opinion if it does turn out to be true

Unless they're playing a game which involves trying to get the Welsh Assembly to stump up for wiring south Wales...imagine the fuss across the Severn if the wires ran out just before the border.

[paul7575]

... But on the plus side there is the suggestion that electric wires may eventually reach Plymouth. 

Plymouth has always been a future proposal in the Electrification RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy), like the majority of other extensions people suggest will never happen.  NW and GW^▸ (Great Western) are not supposed to be the last or only lines to be electrified, they are intended to be the first of the rest...

Paul

[Tim]

We need to get on with putting the wiring up rather than worrying about where they will end.  NR^» (Network Rail - home page) need a chance to demonstrate that they can do it properly and efficiently (they better not blow it) and with each mile strung up the business case for the next mile improves.   

[Electric train]

We need to get on with putting the wiring up rather than worrying about where they will end.  NR^» (Network Rail - home page) need a chance to demonstrate that they can do it properly and efficiently (they better not blow it) and with each mile strung up the business case for the next mile improves.   

Exactly.  NR want to get to grips with a "new" electrification scheme on an operational railway, up until now it has only done renewals.

[paul7575]

IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) it should be easier to put up new electrifcation than do renewals and alterations.  A new installation doesn't have to be returned to working order at the end of every weekend possession, which was apparently one of the main issues with the rebuild at Rugby, where they were continually trying to do track alterations and reposition previously working wires at the same time...

In any case, the usual contractors (such as Balfour Beatty) will be practicing by doing new installations in Scotland long before they get going down here...   

Paul