Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[anthony215]

How much would it be likely to cost to extend the wires from Cardiff to Swansea.?

 The WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) do want to electrify the valley lines network which has been quoted as costing ^250 million so maybe it could be done with the extension of the wires through to swansea providing the WAG can raise the money

[inspector_blakey]

You might just about put the knitting up for 250m, but I'm guessing that doesn't include the cost of a brand-new fleet of electric trains to take advantage of it...

[ChrisB]

What? Just from Cardiff to Swansea? And why would the Welsh need their own stock? :-)

(Don't answer that!)

[inspector_blakey]

Read the post above mine

I was referring to the hypothetical Valley Lines electrification which anthony215 was asking about - I think should it ever happen that it's likely to require not only knitting but also new trains, since I don't think it's possible to bolt a pantograph onto the roof of a Pacer or 150 with much success 

[anthony215]

Even if you could fit a pantograph to a pacer, i thought they were not allowed to operate beyond 2020?

[TerminalJunkie]

I don't think it's possible to bolt a pantograph onto the roof of a Pacer or 150 with much success 

A 150 with a pantograph is a 317, isn't it?

Oh, and Google threw this up: http://boingboing.net/2008/11/03/electric-pacer.html

[IndustryInsider]

I thought that the big statement from Mr. Hammond concerning rail was supposed to be today?  There's no sign of any such statement in the House of Commons schedule today, and a government minister has just stated that the statement will be made soon!  Clearly the detail is still being thrashed out and it's going to the wire (no pun intended!).

When questioned as to whether the electrification will only go as far as Bristol and not Swansea, the minister said he was sure there was no substance to those rumours - whatever that means!

[ChrisB]

Probably only going to Swindon!

[paul7575]

When questioned as to whether the electrification will only go as far as Bristol and not Swansea, the minister said he was sure there was no substance to those rumours - whatever that means!

The original plan - which is still the current plan unless an announcement is made otherwise, was staged wiring to Bristol and ultimately Swansea, with Oxford and Newbury earlier limits of the staging.

All else is just media fuelled rumour, as was the 'fact' that a DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) announcement would be made today?

It may be recalled that a few months ago, it was widely presumed nearly everywhere you read that Crossrail would be seriously scaled back - remember all the press reports about cutting 2 or 3 of the branches, and IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) I made the point that there were only three branches to be built anyway as Heathrow alrready exists.

ISTM that the media policy at the moment is just to think of a worst case then publish it as fact...

Paul

[Electric train]

GRIP^▸ (Guide to Railway Investment Projects) 3 (option selection) work on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification is still on going

[willc]

I suspect the non-announcement today may have something to do with the announcement that did happen about benefits changes, which has rather tended to grab the headlines all day.

Wales Online (aka Western Mail) carried a report today which says the electrification verdict will be within 10 days, so next week looks a fair bet now.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/welsh-politics/welsh-politics-news/2010/11/11/decision-near-1bn-great-western-upgrade-but-will-electrification-go-west-of-bristol-91466-27638214/

ISTM that the media policy at the moment is just to think of a worst case then publish it as fact...

Or it could of course be the old one of someone in government having a word in someone's ear about what they are supposedly thinking of doing (they don't employ the likes of Andy Coulson and Alastair Campbell for no reason), so that when the announcement is made, it doesn't look half as bad. And people here and on other forums are just as capable of speculation as "the media".

[IndustryInsider]

Thanks for the link, Will.  A long article with some nonsense statements including "One drawback of the Great Western electrification as a whole is that large parts of the route use old signalling, which would have to be replaced for compatibility with electric trains. However, that complication does not apply in Wales, where Network Rail is midway through a ^400m resignalling programme."


What the heckers is that supposed to mean!?

[willc]

Perhaps an attempt to indicate that the new signals in South Wales are immunised against 25kv interference? At least I hope they are, or are capable of being easily immunised should the need arise. Which may well not be the case for much existing GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) signal kit this side of the Severn. Perhaps electric train knows?

[Electric train]

Perhaps an attempt to indicate that the new signals in South Wales are immunised against 25kv interference? At least I hope they are, or are capable of being easily immunised should the need arise. Which may well not be the case for much existing GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) signal kit this side of the Severn. Perhaps electric train knows?

I am not fully up to speed with all of the signaling on the GWML, whole sale resignaling is not so essential as it was years ago because there are modern sub systems eg axle counter system that can be installed and connected to existing interlockings if it is a track circuit immunity problem.  The GWML is due for resignaling as part of CP4^▸ (Control Period 4 - the five year period between 2009 and 2014) / 5 Didcot, Exeter, Newport being some of the key parts of the process

The article in Western Mail is I suspect making a political point that the South Wales line is not as expensive to do as some parts of England because of the investment already made and that Wales should not loose out because of the cost electrifying east of the Seven.

An OHLE design engineer has told me that they see no significant problems wiring through Seven Tunnel, some clever engineering yes but no major show stoppers

[IndustryInsider]

Wales Online (aka Western Mail) carried a report today which says the electrification verdict will be within 10 days, so next week looks a fair bet now.

Then again, maybe not: http://railwayeye.blogspot.com/2010/11/thursday-is-cancelled.html