Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[matt473]

I think the situation is going to get real confusing as there are rumours flying about that we may be returning to some form of set up similair to BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) so there may be delays as the structure of the rail system for the ear future is decided upon 

This was in the Sunday Times so may have an element of truth as they would not be the usual source for demanding nationisation of industries. Interesting times may be ahead whether good or bad for rail

[inspector_blakey]

Would be interested to read that article Matt, would you be able to post a link?

Wouldn't there be a delicious irony thought in an essentially tory government restoring the structure of BR^▸ (British Rail(ways))...? Are we talking pre- or post-sectorization?

[willc]

Would be interested to read that article Matt, would you be able to post a link?

Not unless you want to sign up to Mr Murdoch's new paywall.

[matt473]

Would be interested to read that article Matt, would you be able to post a link?

Wouldn't there be a delicious irony thought in an essentially tory government restoring the structure of BR^▸ (British Rail(ways))...? Are we talking pre- or post-sectorization?

Sadly I can't as it was in the business suppliment within the actual newspaper. No doubt there will be snippets floating about but the jist of it was many feel Coucher leaving network rail is a result of upcomming restructuring bringing it back under full public ownership as opposed to the government being the only shareholder as is currently the case. It may however be a case of creating a more verticalally intergrated system as has been hinted at for a long time with the break up of network rail possibly for a privatised BR as such. Either way the feeling is that there will be major structural change to the way teh railway is run in the near future (Supported by the delaying of re-letting the NXEA^▸ (National Express East Anglia) and C2C franchises whilst a review of franchising takes place)

[inspector_blakey]

Not unless you want to sign up to Mr Murdoch's new paywall.

Aah, how irritating. I knew that Murdoch was about to squirrel away the Times and Sunday Times websites behind a paywall at some point, but hadn't realized that is had gone live yet.

Not exactly a great loss, I suppose, except for the odd occasions like this when there's a specific article of interest. Must say it strikes me as a curious business decision given the huge amount of free, high-quality news coverage out there, but this is wandering well off topic and is very much a discussion for elsewhere so I'll nip it in the bud!

[woody]

From today's FT:

'The government may also reconsider the ^1bn electrification of the
Great Western line. Network Rail had been expected to borrow to
finance electrification of the key route. "Frankly, that is not an
option any more," said Mr Hammond.

Instead, he said, he was examining the case for compelling rail
companies to contribute to the costs of electrifying certain lines as
a condition for winning longer franchises.

"We're committed to electrification as part of the carbon agenda but
it has to sit within the fiscal constraints we face," he said. That,
however, would suggest further upward pressure on train fares to help
operators pay for the added costs.'

[brompton rail]

The cost of GW^▸ (Great Western) electrification has also to include the cost of new rolling stock. Even a 25 year franchise to include electrification and stock (both intercity and local and covering those sections not electrified) isn't going to pay much of a premium to DfT^» (Department for Transport - about). Plus, of course, franchisee running GW would be free to build / lease their own design of trains. In that situation each franchise could have its own design of new trains and little or no inter availability with other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company). Smallish fleets of Pendolinos for West Coast, Seimens DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) for FTP^▸ (File Transfer Protocol) Ex, old BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) designed and built stock for East Coast, Class 180s for .. ??  any TOC desperate enough. And so on.

[Electric train]

The cost of GW^▸ (Great Western) electrification has also to include the cost of new rolling stock. Even a 25 year franchise to include electrification and stock (both intercity and local and covering those sections not electrified) isn't going to pay much of a premium to DfT^» (Department for Transport - about). Plus, of course, franchisee running GW would be free to build / lease their own design of trains. In that situation each franchise could have its own design of new trains and little or no inter availability with other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company). Smallish fleets of Pendolinos for West Coast, Seimens DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) for FTP^▸ (File Transfer Protocol) Ex, old BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) designed and built stock for East Coast, Class 180s for .. ??  any TOC desperate enough. And so on.

Just as unity in the rail industry was starting to happen a Government with dogma has to mess it up 1995 here we come again!!!

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

why not create jobs within england by developing hydrogen electric trains, not only for use within the uk but for export.... could be done in partnership with the motor industry to get the fuel delivery infrastucture in place

no need for wires, trains can go on any route well with no wires anyway, would help the environment cut down maintanace costs (less working parts), being alot lighter should cause less wear on rails... or am i just dreaming

[onthecushions]

why not create jobs within england by developing hydrogen electric trains, not only for use within the uk but for export.... could be done in partnership with the motor industry to get the fuel delivery infrastucture in place

no need for wires, trains can go on any route well with no wires anyway, would help the environment cut down maintanace costs (less working parts), being alot lighter should cause less wear on rails... or am i just dreaming

You need a fuel tank 4x the volume of a diesel but capable of withstanding 700 atmospheres, so very very thick and heavy.

The fuel cell costs .....c$20M per loco.

For gas safety think Ais Gill or Hawes Jn Crashes on the Midland. A lot less to clear up after.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_economy

Electrification is still the best.

OTC

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

humm after reading that im scared ticking timebombs comes to mind

[XPT]

What gets me is that it still looks uncertain as to whether the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification will ever actually get built.  Yet 11 months ago when it was announced in the press and media that the GWML was to electrified, it mentioned that it would begin immediately!!   Looking forward to say 5 years in the future, will the physical work of the electrification of the GWML be visible yet?  Wouldn't surprise me atall if not!

[Electric train]

What gets me is that it still looks uncertain as to whether the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification will ever actually get built.  Yet 11 months ago when it was announced in the press and media that the GWML was to electrified, it mentioned that it would begin immediately!! 

Work in fact commenced ahead of the public announcement.  Power supply design options are in place as is most of the OHLE outline design for the complex and environmental locations all of which is on target for the next GRIP^▸ (Guide to Railway Investment Projects) stage and there lies the problem with the change in Government.

Looking forward to say 5 years in the future, will the physical work of the electrification of the GWML be visible yet?  Wouldn't surprise me atall if not!

The Government transport spending review and how they deal with TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) franchises will determine this

[Henry]

http://www.dft.gov.uk/press/speechesstatements/statements/hammond20100706

 A bit long winded, but I suppose we will have to wait until October.

[caliwag]

From Rail News...

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/general/2010/07/23-new-doubts-over-great-western.html