Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Noggin]

I'd be inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.

The fact is that at the appointed day, electric trains started running, and they are new and shiny ones to boot, not like the 319's the northerners got. Within the next six months the power supply will be upgraded, Maidenhead to Reading will be energised and it should be all systems go. Considering the mess the project was in at the start, with piling hitting signalling cables and all sorts, it is a remarkable achievement.

2 years from today, Crossrail should be fully functional, there will be OHLE all the way to Cardiff, Newbury and Chippenham, and shiny new 80x's galore, and of course there will have been an awful lot of infrastructure and signalling renewal. That's not bad progress for 10 years.

[IndustryInsider]

That's not bad progress for 10 years.

I intend to produce a cab video comparison next year charting all of the numerous changes on the route between Paddington and Didcot Parkway in a similar vein to my Cotswold line redoubling one.  The original footage I have was recorded in July 2010.  That was before any visible work had started at Reading or on the Great Western Electrification Programme and the only Crossrail works visible were the lifting of the old Marcon sidings between Westbourne Park and Royal Oak.

I think the number of changes will surprise many people.

[John R]

I'd be inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.

The fact is that at the appointed day, electric trains started running, and they are new and shiny ones to boot, not like the 319's the northerners got. Within the next six months the power supply will be upgraded, Maidenhead to Reading will be energised and it should be all systems go. Considering the mess the project was in at the start, with piling hitting signalling cables and all sorts, it is a remarkable achievement.

2 years from today, Crossrail should be fully functional, there will be OHLE all the way to Cardiff, Newbury and Chippenham, and shiny new 80x's galore, and of course there will have been an awful lot of infrastructure and signalling renewal. That's not bad progress for 10 years.

I think that's a very glass half full view.  Remember that the whole east coast was electrified from Hitchin to Leeds and Edinburgh in 7 years from authorisation. So a remarkable achievement?  Hardly.  What we'll get is half a job - so much so that the AC only units are being respecified as bi-modes, the wires will run out in the middle of the Wiltshire countryside, and one of the major Thames valley destinations will remain devoid of knitting.  And finally, they discover a couple of days before launch that they can't even run all of the additional three emu peak hour only diagrams.

[onthecushions]

I intend to produce a cab video comparison next year charting all of the numerous changes on the route between Paddington and Didcot Parkway in a similar vein to my Cotswold line redoubling one.  The original footage I have was recorded in July 2010.  That was before any visible work had started at Reading or on the Great Western Electrification Programme and the only Crossrail works visible were the lifting of the old Marcon sidings between Westbourne Park and Royal Oak.

I think that RailScene Cab Ride 32 might show even more changes - it was made 27 years ago to the day!

OTC

[Rhydgaled]

What we'll get is half a job - so much so that the AC only units are being respecified as bi-modes

They were never really going to true 'AC Only' units anyway, just like the new Hitachi trains to replace the IC225 electrics out of Kings Cross they were to be class 801 units which, operationally speaking, are EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) but technically speaking are bi-modes. The class 801s will have a single diesel engine on-board (or possibly two) to allow low-speed movement if the overhead wires are disabled. They would not have enough power in diesel mode to be useful for running services beyond the wires, but they will have a diesel mode.

Given that electrification of the diversionary route to south Wales via Gloucester was never authorised, I actually think having some fully-capable 9-car bi-mode units (rather than a choice of 5-car bi-modes and 9-car class 801s) could be a good thing; it is just a shame that the electrification we were promissed is being delayed (I hope not cut back, but worryingly it is looking that way).

[Noggin]

WNXX^▸ (Stored Unserviceable, Mainline Locos HQ All Classes)'s man inside GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) suggests that there will be full electric diagram in the peaks from Friday as previously planned. Guess that someone was just being cautious.

Yes, the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) was done relatively quickly, and the track mileage is longer, but as I understand it, the scope of works was relatively limited and the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) screwed the costs down as tightly as possible, leaving problems with the overheads that are still experienced today. Hull, Lincoln, Middlesborough, Aberdeen, Inverness etc were left untouched, with no electro-diesels, so they were left with HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s running under the wires for long stretches.

I'd argue that the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) project is far greater in scope - complete resignalling, much heavier duty OLE^▸ (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") that meets European TSI's, major infrastructure rebuilding right into Paddington, conductor bar through the Severn Tunnel, reinstatement of 4 miles of double track along the Filton Bank including some major civil engineering, on a railway that is far more heavily used than the ECML in the 1980's, of which much is a world heritage site and was built by Brunel very early on using what would now be considered extremely unorthodox techniques.

I'd say that that's a pretty amazing feat.

[IndustryInsider]

It's not a good start to the new Maidenhead-Paddington electric services is it?

Not perfect, no.  But it's worth pointing out that of the 15 daily electric passenger services that are supposed to be running from/to Maidenhead and Slough, only 4 of them are not running as a result of this 'Turbotution' of one of the diagrams.

OK, one failed at Taplow on Monday and today there were delays caused by the failed engineering train, but all-in-all I wouldn't say it was a 'bad' start either.  Especially if the full 15 trains are 387s from Friday as Noggin has reported from the WNXX^▸ (Stored Unserviceable, Mainline Locos HQ All Classes) forum.

[didcotdean]

Steventon Parish News for January 2017 is reporting that in the end the bridge will be rebuilt and the level crossings will stay open!

So that years of delay to end up back where they started at huge public expense. 

A decision due by May and then they still have to get permission from the District Council because it is listed. 

The planning application is currently pending, and has become a leading topic in the local weekly papers, eg:

http://www.oxfordshireguardian.co.uk/end-line-railway-bridge/
http://www.heraldseries.co.uk/news/hsdidcotnews/15308796.Network_Rail_faces_residents__wrath_over_plans_to_demolish_historic_bridge/

Much (but not all) of the ire seems to be around the length of time (10 months) Steventon will be cut off for traffic towards the south from business.

The actual number of objections on the planning site is only a handful, at least at the moment. Still some time to run.

[Electric train]

I'd be inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.

The fact is that at the appointed day, electric trains started running, and they are new and shiny ones to boot, not like the 319's the northerners got. Within the next six months the power supply will be upgraded, Maidenhead to Reading will be energised and it should be all systems go. Considering the mess the project was in at the start, with piling hitting signalling cables and all sorts, it is a remarkable achievement.

2 years from today, Crossrail should be fully functional, there will be OHLE all the way to Cardiff, Newbury and Chippenham, and shiny new 80x's galore, and of course there will have been an awful lot of infrastructure and signalling renewal. That's not bad progress for 10 years.

I think that's a very glass half full view.  Remember that the whole east coast was electrified from Hitchin to Leeds and Edinburgh in 7 years from authorisation. So a remarkable achievement?  Hardly.  What we'll get is half a job - so much so that the AC only units are being respecified as bi-modes, the wires will run out in the middle of the Wiltshire countryside, and one of the major Thames valley destinations will remain devoid of knitting.  And finally, they discover a couple of days before launch that they can't even run all of the additional three emu peak hour only diagrams.

There was a bit of a fudge with the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) electrification, BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) installed a lot of OLE^▸ (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") foundations and switchgear building bases during pauses in other electrification projects.  It was easy for them to do this as they used direct labour, had their own plant, controlled the whole system so possessions were simple to arrange.

Also its a little unfair to compare todays railway to the one BR "owned" and operated , NR^» (Network Rail - home page) may "own" the infrastructure but they have to jump through hoops to get the access they need also the way contracts are let today and the H&S^▸ (Health and Safety) law that surrounds the way work is done is vastly different. 

Also BR were well practiced at electrification, they had constantly been at it for 30 plus years so the engineers and managers were highly experienced.  We have had a 22 or so year gap at best the experience is spread across many employers but in a lot of cases has retired.  The guys in GWEP^▸ (Great Western Electrification Program) have been relearning a lot of the lessons plus a whole lot of new ones.   Add the complexity of the politicians in the 2010 general election out bidding each other on who was going to do the most electrification and the quickest but then did not have the money to fund it.

[paul7575]

There was a bit of a fudge with the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) electrification, BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) installed a lot of OLE^▸ (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") foundations and switchgear building bases during pauses in other electrification projects.  It was easy for them to do this as they used direct labour, had their own plant, controlled the whole system so possessions were simple to arrange.

They were also sorting out low bridges to provide for electrification many years in advance.   In Peter Semmens' book on the project, he mentions that they were raising bridges in the north east from the 1950s onwards.  The work was theoretically to provide increased clearances for decent depth of ballasted track for the higher speeds the Deltics would run at, but they were able to rebuild bridges for OHLE clearances as part of the same work.  There are a number of examples of this on the closed section of the line from Selby to York, which were completed prior to the Selby coalfield diversion.

The other main point about the ECML is that design work must have been continuing on and off for many years prior to the Department of Transport's decision to start in 1984, after all the project was always about to start ever since the time of the modernisation plan, if not well before.  I very much doubt they started with a completely clean slate in 1984...

Paul

[Electric train]

There was a bit of a fudge with the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) electrification, BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) installed a lot of OLE^▸ (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") foundations and switchgear building bases during pauses in other electrification projects.  It was easy for them to do this as they used direct labour, had their own plant, controlled the whole system so possessions were simple to arrange.

They were also sorting out low bridges to provide for electrification many years in advance.   In Peter Semmens' book on the project, he mentions that they were raising bridges in the north east from the 1950s onwards.  The work was theoretically to provide increased clearances for decent depth of ballasted track for the higher speeds the Deltics would run at, but they were able to rebuild bridges for OHLE clearances as part of the same work.  There are a number of examples of this on the closed section of the line from Selby to York, which were completed prior to the Selby coalfield diversion.

The other main point about the ECML is that design work must have been continuing on and off for many years prior to the Department of Transport's decision to start in 1984, after all the project was always about to start ever since the time of the modernisation plan, if not well before.  I very much doubt they started with a completely clean slate in 1984...

Paul

Also the ECM had a major re-signalling in the 1970's on most of the route, very little was done to the signalling as part of the electrification process.  With GW^▸ (Great Western) Route it is a whole sale route modernisation, even in the 1970s for the introduction of the 125's it was predominately track work; so we find our selves with an electrification scheme, re-signalling and playing catch up with bridge replacements

[ellendune]

I see Network Rail have now applied for planning permission to demolish the bridge at Steventon.  Details can be found on the Vale of the White Horse Council's website here

[didcotdean]

I see Network Rail have now applied for planning permission to demolish the bridge at Steventon.  Details can be found on the Vale of the White Horse Council's website here

Also this one: Provision of New Overbridge, under Part 18 Class A to Schedule 2 of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order 2015, requiring the Local Planning Authority's Prior Approval

[John R]

I was slightly surprised to see that piling has recently been carried out immediately west of Thingley Jn for around 1.2Km. Maybe that's considered to be a better place for drivers to transition from electric to diesel than at the junction itself?

[paul7575]

I was slightly surprised to see that piling has recently been carried out immediately west of Thingley Jn for around 1.2Km. Maybe that's considered to be a better place for drivers to transition from electric to diesel than at the junction itself?

Perhaps it is better to have the end of the initial stage of the wiring at a normal plain line location, well away from the grid feeder station, which will be a relatively more complex location with additional electrical switching.  Eventually Thingley will be feeding in both directions.   1.2 km is possibly a fairly standard wiring length.

Paul