Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Looking to do some maths on 165 / 166 cascades here ... wondering how many won't be released for the foreseeable future?   Are there more 387s on order than are needed now?  Perhaps the Swansea trains remain as IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) but the Cardiffs become spare 387s, releasing IEPs for the Oxford runs?   Noting that electrification to Thingley Junction is to proceed, does that open the way for extra London to Chippenham services?  Are the proposed works at Bath next Easter to proceed anyway, or will they be postponed? Looking to understand the numbers and ramifications here.

[grahame]

Following this deferment, as far as I can make out, there are no sections on which the Class 80x will operate on diesel that have line speed above 110mph, except Wootton Bassett Junction to Box.

Thought Wootton Bassett to Thingley remained in the program - ruddy great feeder station there were much of the juice comes from ...

[Thatcham Crossing]

No impact to the plans for the B&H^▸ (Berks and Hants - railway line from Reading to Taunton via Westbury) to Newbury as far as I can see.

Interesting that Newbury gets "prioritised" for electric trains over Oxford....but I guess due to complexity/re-development at the latter.

Perhaps all the bits of infrastructure that won't be needed between Didcot and Oxford could now be used to wire to Bedwyn! (retreats with tongue firmly in-cheek )

[ellendune]

How can Filton Bank not be electrified after all the work already done? And the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) depot there,too?

That's politics!

I am pretty sure it will be electrified - after all the re-signalling is still going ahead, the four tracking is in progress still (the contract has been let).  This is just about the electrification isn't it.

After all that it should look a simple scheme. 

I just do not know when it will happen!

[paul7575]

I'd again re-iterate that all they've effectively don is announce what was already stated in the Sept 16 update to the enhancement plans.   Nothing DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have said should be a surprise, in comparison.

Paul

[John R]

I guess Bristol East Jn, together with the approach to Temple Meads and the platforms itself will be fairly complex.

 

[Timmer]

I just do not know when it will happen!

Neither do the government by the looks of things.

[broadgage]

I suspect that a lot of the proposed electrification wont happen in the foreseeable future now.

This "deferment" will be seen as a substantial victory by the NIMBYs, and will get them more time to raise funds and become better organised.
And meantime, the newts are no doubt breeding.
Actual electrification will be replaced by yet more studies and consultations, each such study and consultation will recommend further studies, with the eventual result being a more expensive and less reliable scheme that probably wont be built, and certainly wont work in windy weather if it is built.

The fact that the new trains can switch between diesel and electric power on the move will increase calls to not electrify bits of the route that anyone can see !

[JayMac]

Following this deferment, as far as I can make out, there are no sections on which the Class 80x will operate on diesel that have line speed above 110mph, except Wootton Bassett Junction to Box.

Thought Wootton Bassett to Thingley remained in the program - ruddy great feeder station there were much of the juice comes from ...

Apologies. It does appear that the wires should reach Thingy Junction. One more 125 mph stretch covered by leccy.

[TonyK]

Apologies. It does appear that the wires should reach Thingy Junction. One more 125 mph stretch covered by leccy.

 

If not Whosname Bassett.

[TonyK]

Reaction from GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)

The changes are of course disappointing. However, we have done a considerable amount of work with the Department for Transport over the past year to find different ways to provide the benefits we promised customers despite the challenges faced by Network Rail.

Although there is some more work to do, we expect to be able to deliver the benefits broadly in line with the timescales we originally expected. In some areas of the network we may even be able to exceed the original expectations, as we have done for example the Thames Valley where all our local electric trains will now be brand new Class 387s, rather than the older trains previously planned.

Of course, we will need to understand today’s news a little more to be completely sure, but we will do all we can to deliver our commitments to customers as close as possible to the dates we promised when the franchise started.  

In English:

We will do something better in spite of Network Rail, not because of Network Rail.

This is a ridiculous step backwards. Millions of passengers annually will make the trip from London to Bristol, almost but not quite all of it under electric power. That means all of the trains will need to be bi-mode for both routes, and this is despite the large amount of work already done in preparation. Such as lowering the line at Keynsham and rebuilding Easton Road bridge to name but two. Never has there been a more obvious case of spoiling the ship for a ha'porth of tar. (Albeit a pretty penny of a ha'porth).

I think that might be too many things on my desk causing spurious mouse clicks when I unintentionally move the mouse.

Yes I often do that - knowing that a bigger desk would just allow me to spread my clutter to fill it, a bit more discipline is needed!

As a now retired civil servant, I know that a tidy desk is a sign of a sick mind.

[SandTEngineer]

As I have said before elsewhere on this forum I think the government now has a good case for taking renewals and enhancements away from NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and creating a National Infrastructure Company that can, and will be held account to deliver.  That will leave NR to focus on maintaining and operating the railway (and hopefully making a better job of it than today).

[ellendune]

As I have said before elsewhere on this forum I think the government now has a good case for taking renewals and enhancements away from NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and creating a National Infrastructure Company that can, and will be held account to deliver.  That will leave NR to focus on maintaining and operating the railway (and hopefully making a better job of it than today).

I am a bit unsure of this.  When the contracts for maintenance were separate to renewal under railtrack, the maintenance contractors were perversely incentivised to minimise the maintenance, run the track into the ground and leave someone else to pick up the tab. 

[Oberon]

I think the main line can cope with (hopefully temporary) pausing of electrification, Thingley-Bristol-Parkway is not a 125mph stretch of line. The real problem as I see it is by deferring the Oxford electrification the transfer of all those nice 166 Turbos to Bristol for strengthening will be much delayed. This must mean Cardiff-Portsmouth soldiers on for years to come with inadequate 3 car 158s, which might be ok in the middle of the day but not in the crowded peaks. Then of course there is the knock on effect further west with no 158s going to the Barstaple line and presumably no 150s for Devon & Cornwall. I wonder if GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) has thought about this?

[SandTEngineer]

As I have said before elsewhere on this forum I think the government now has a good case for taking renewals and enhancements away from NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and creating a National Infrastructure Company that can, and will be held account to deliver.  That will leave NR to focus on maintaining and operating the railway (and hopefully making a better job of it than today).

I am a bit unsure of this.  When the contracts for maintenance were separate to renewal under railtrack, the maintenance contractors were perversely incentivised to minimise the maintenance, run the track into the ground and leave someone else to pick up the tab. 

mmm.....so you don't think that NR is running its assets into the ground then?  I can tell you that the maintenance budgets now are a fraction of what they were at the start of NR in 2004 and there is no money even for extended maintenance tasks such as minor renewals to keep indvidual assets safe and reliable....